unbeliever Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 It's still going to be the same elite, just a different faction of it. Like I said many times the Tories are the political wing of British business and this has been a battle between two factions in it. The issue is that this is a total and final victory for one faction. We can't flip-flop in and out of the EU/EFTA/EEA every 5 years. Trade deals take longer than 5 years usually. Economic change at the national strategic level has the turning circle of an oil tanker so your argument about change every 5 years is not practicable and a recipe for continuous uncertainty. For the last 43 years there has been a level of certainty provided by continuous EU membership. That certainty is being removed. You are going to feel the full force of this when article 50 is invoked and we are on a 2 year countdown to WTO trade rules. In all your fervour over a vague notion of sovereignty you have not really considered the economic impact. I reckon you are not going to like it much. It's up to the electorate to take all that into account when voting. When it comes to politicians: security breeds malfeasance. I'm not scared of the WTO only resolution. It has advantages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 i would hope that Cameron has put in place a team working on Brexit, and all this leadership stuff is not stopping the thinking and negotiating process..... I would like to hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 It's up to the electorate to take all that into account when voting. When it comes to politicians: security breeds malfeasance. I'm not scared of the WTO only resolution. It has advantages. You're ignoring the fact that we can't flip-flop our strategic economic plan every 5 years on the whim of the electorate. That is why your woolly notion of sovereignty is not practicable. The 5 yearly change of government is to allow decisions to be made within a strategic framework, not to meddle with and completely change the strategic framework every 5 years. Like I said what you propose is a recipe for economic uncertainty. You will only realise this when the triggering of article 50 gets closer and the clock starts ticking towards WTO rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 You're ignoring the fact that we can't flip-flop our strategic economic plan every 5 years on the whim of the electorate. That is why your woolly notion of sovereignty is not practicable. The 5 yearly change of government is to allow decisions to be made within a strategic framework, not to meddle with and completely change the strategic framework every 5 years. Like I said what you propose is a recipe for economic uncertainty. You will only realise this when the triggering of article 50 gets closer and the clock starts ticking towards WTO rules. We should think very hard before changing our economic strategy substantially. But we absolutely must retain the power to do so. Otherwise we should stop calling it democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 You're ignoring the fact that we can't flip-flop our strategic economic plan every 5 years on the whim of the electorate. That is why your woolly notion of sovereignty is not practicable. The 5 yearly change of government is to allow decisions to be made within a strategic framework, not to meddle with and completely change the strategic framework every 5 years. Like I said what you propose is a recipe for economic uncertainty. You will only realise this when the triggering of article 50 gets closer and the clock starts ticking towards WTO rules. Indeed. Look at education. Our government has total control over it and with every new government, each one knows best and faffs about with it. We should have the best education in the world. Do we? No, we do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Indeed. Look at education. Our government has total control over it and with every new government, each one knows best and faffs about with it. We should have the best education in the world. Do we? No, we do not. Why would we have the best education system in the world? Our education system is highly "progressive" and every attempt to move it more toward the more successful systems such as in China is met by ferocious resistance from the teaching unions. Gove attempted to move it in the right direction and he got voted down in parliament, then fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radan Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Why would we have the best education system in the world? Our education system is highly "progressive" and every attempt to move it more toward the more successful systems such as in China is met by ferocious resistance from the teaching unions. Gove attempted to move it in the right direction and he got voted down in parliament, then fired. You can't pretend the teachers liked him. Which is why he might have been voted down. Then fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 We should think very hard before changing our economic strategy substantially. But we absolutely must retain the power to do so. Otherwise we should stop calling it democracy. But there is the problem. We have voted to change our national strategic economic plan. Nothing less. We haven't thought hard about it. You yourself have focused almost exclusively on the sovereignty angle. For many others make no mistake it has been about immigration. The nation has allowed itself to be persuaded by people with limited economic experience who had no alternative economic plan for us. In fact they made a virtue of not having a plan. There is still no plan. In the cold light of day this is insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 You can't pretend the teachers liked him. Which is why he might have been voted down. Then fired. Of course the teachers didn't like him. He tried to take a few small steps in optimising the education system for the pupils rather than the teachers. They had a fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radan Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Of course the teachers didn't like him. He tried to take a few small steps in optimising the education system for the pupils rather than the teachers. They had a fit. Is that how they see it? Anyone that doesn't agree with Gove must be mad? Wasn't it him who said please don't put a poster of me on your wall? You should listen to him on that..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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