unbeliever Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 But there is the problem. We have voted to change our national strategic economic plan. Nothing less. We haven't thought hard about it. You yourself have focused almost exclusively on the sovereignty angle. For many others make no mistake it has been about immigration. The nation has allowed itself to be persuaded by people with limited economic experience who had no alternative economic plan for us. In fact they made a virtue of not having a plan. There is still no plan. In the cold light of day this is insanity. There are a range of options. All of them better than EU membership in my view. Which is pursued will depend on who wins the race for PM. Gove will walk away from the EU if they don't give him a no strings free trade deal. May will sign up for EEC membership. Leadsome is probably somewhere in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Of course the teachers didn't like him. He tried to take a few small steps in optimising the education system for the pupils rather than the teachers. They had a fit. A few small steps? He butchered the system in an ideologically-driven frenzy then got sacked What planet are you on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Is that how they see it? Anyone that doesn't agree with Gove must be mad? Wasn't it him who said please don't put a poster of me on your wall? You should listen to him on that..... tinfoil hat asked why we don't have the best education system. I believe that this is because the teachers resist the necessary reforms and the government of the day is always too busy with other matters to see the necessary fight through. My parents are both retired teachers. I know exactly what they believe and I assert that it is profoundly disconnected from reality. ---------- Post added 02-07-2016 at 21:34 ---------- A few small steps? He butchered the system in an ideologically-driven frenzy then got sacked What planet are you on? We should copy the Chinese system. It is rigorous, academic, formal and insanely successful. We don't because of the teaching unions. It's that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 There are a range of options. All of them better than EU membership in my view. Which is pursued will depend on who wins the race for PM. Gove will walk away from the EU if they don't give him a no strings free trade deal. May will sign up for EEC membership. Leadsome is probably somewhere in between. All very nice but you are arguing we can change the system every 5 years on the whim of the electorate. That is the democracy you want. All it takes is somebody to con the public like Johnson and Gove did, and some extremely dangerous choices could be made. You have to accept that you want something with inherent instability that is guaranteed to create uncertainty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radan Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) tinfoil hat asked why we don't have the best education system. I believe that this is because the teachers resist the necessary reforms and the government of the day is always too busy with other matters to see the necessary fight through. My parents are both retired teachers. I know exactly what they believe and I assert that it is profoundly disconnected from reality. ---------- Post added 02-07-2016 at 21:34 ---------- We should copy the Chinese system. It is rigorous, academic, formal and insanely successful. We don't because of the teaching unions. It's that simple. Michael Gove is the first Education Secretary EVER to face a vote of no confidence from the NUT. And it was unanimous. That, to me, regardless of your parents' view, suggests he was hopeless. You hate Jeremy Corbyn. He's just lost a vote of no confidence. But he was at least backed by 40 MPs. Edited July 2, 2016 by Radan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) Of course the teachers didn't like him. He tried to take a few small steps in optimising the education system for the pupils rather than the teachers. They had a fit. In 2014 there was a sharp fall in English GCSE grades, but on average across all GCSE subjects the year's results show a rise in A* to C grades. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-28868543 GCSE grades A* to C have rose slightly in 2015 but top A* and A grades have edged down. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-33990713 I wouldnt say that was a ringing endorsement of Goves policies. GCSE pass rates fell in 2012(they had been rising since at least 1995) not sure if that should be blamed on Gove or the previous Government. You are positive about Gove, do you base this on any facts? Edited July 2, 2016 by El Cid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 In 2014 there was a sharp fall in English GCSE grades, but on average across all GCSE subjects the year's results show a rise in A* to C grades. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-28868543 GCSE grades A* to C have rose slightly in 2015 but top A* and A grades have edged down. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-33990713 I wouldnt say that was a ringing endorsement of Goves policies. GCSE pass rates fell in 2012(they had been rising since at least 1995) not sure if that should be blamed on Gove or the previous Government. You are positive about Gove, do you base this on any facts? The first thing Gove did was put an end to grade inflation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radan Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 The first thing Gove did was put an end to grade inflation. No it wasn't, it was to cancel the building of schools which a judge described as a gross abuse of his power. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12429152 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 The first thing Gove did was put an end to grade inflation. You are positive about Gove, do you base this on any facts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 We should copy the Chinese system. It is rigorous, academic, formal and insanely successful. We don't because of the teaching unions. It's that simple. I have no doubt that there is room for improvement but Gove's damaging reforms were not small steps. They were the most substantial changes since comprehensive education was introduced. He cannot and should not be trusted to make decisions on behalf on the whole nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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