tinfoilhat Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 North Korea has constant leadership. So does China. Cuba does too. I could go on. Democracy is bad for stability. Stability cannot be the primary goal. I know you didn't mean to compare the EU with North Korea. Ok, let's see who has democracy and small government and no EU interference. Our chums in the states. They've lots of democracy and freedoms, you can shoot burglars too. But they've got great swathes of poverty - I found this an interesting read http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-35653619 - I'm not sure I want our country to go down this route, although you could argue parts of it has. From your posts you are very well educated and I'd guess pretty wealthy. The free trade deals won't hurt you but will hurt, ironically, a good chunk of people who voted leave with you. You will have as much democracy as you want and you'll be fine. At the sharper end it won't be long until people will crave that stability you're trading democracy for to put food on the table. I'm coming across as some hippy which I'm really not in real life - sudden extreme changes don't do much good for anyone. This sudden and extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radan Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 North Korea has constant leadership. So does China. Cuba does too. I could go on. Democracy is bad for stability. Stability cannot be the primary goal. ---------- Post added 02-07-2016 at 22:09 ---------- The primary purpose of the education system is to teach children skills to make them economically useful. The Chinese system does that. This is what is required to have the worlds best education system. If you have other priorities, I understand that. Social skills, other non-academic development, they all have value. But they come at the cost of inferior academic performance. We don't have the best education system because we don't want it. We give our schools other priorities. You can't have it both ways. I think our education system is fine. What lets it down is too many pupils per class. This is most prevalent in inner cities. We have no desire to adopt the Chinese system. It seems Michael Gove did but we have now demonstrated amply he had zero support from the NUT and that Chinese education isn't all that wonderful (unless you are a Commie). The sources above are the proof. As is his sacking. Back to Brexit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) I know you didn't mean to compare the EU with North Korea. Ok, let's see who has democracy and small government and no EU interference. Our chums in the states. They've lots of democracy and freedoms, you can shoot burglars too. But they've got great swathes of poverty - I found this an interesting read http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-35653619 - I'm not sure I want our country to go down this route, although you could argue parts of it has. From your posts you are very well educated and I'd guess pretty wealthy. The free trade deals won't hurt you but will hurt, ironically, a good chunk of people who voted leave with you. You will have as much democracy as you want and you'll be fine. At the sharper end it won't be long until people will crave that stability you're trading democracy for to put food on the table. I'm coming across as some hippy which I'm really not in real life - sudden extreme changes don't do much good for anyone. This sudden and extreme. I'm not suggesting that North Korea and the EU are similar. I'm pointing out that democracy and stability of policy are not compatible. You automatically sacrifice one to gain the other. We gave up some democracy for policy stability being members of the EU. I didn't like it. So I voted to leave. ---------- Post added 02-07-2016 at 22:21 ---------- I think our education system is fine. What lets it down is too many pupils per class. This is most prevalent in inner cities. We have no desire to adopt the Chinese system. It seems Michael Gove did but we have now demonstrated amply he had zero support from the NUT and that Chinese education isn't all that wonderful (unless you are a Commie). The sources above are the proof. As is his sacking. Back to Brexit? China has an average class size of 38. The UK is at around 21. Norway is at 22-23. That's not what matters for kids education. It is what matters to the teaching unions. Edited July 2, 2016 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dardandec Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) Won't happen, no politician will have the balls to pull the trigger. Nowhere enough gain to be had by doing it. If any past or present government thought for one minute we would be even remotely slightly better off out, they would have took us out without even asking us. Edited July 2, 2016 by Dardandec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 PISA The sampling for China was from a tiny number of cities. The system has significant issues, for example a focus on rote learning and high pressure placed on students who are not treated as individuals. It measures success only in the outcome of tests and stifles creativity. It is not a system we should seek to emulate. ---------- Post added 02-07-2016 at 22:25 ---------- Won't happen, no politician will have the balls to pull the trigger. Nowhere enough gain to be had by doing it. If any past or present government thought for one minute we would be even remotely slightly better of out, they would have took us out without even asking us. Andrea Leadsom would do it in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_bloke Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 It was Gove who put forward the policy of performance related pay and stopping the automatic pay rises in teaching. That was enough for him to be lambasted and hated by the unions. Anything he wanted to do from that point on was going to be fought tooth and nail irrespective of how good an idea it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radan Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 The sampling for China was from a tiny number of cities. The system has significant issues, for example a focus on rote learning and high pressure placed on students who are not treated as individuals. It measures success only in the outcome of tests and stifles creativity. It is not a system we should seek to emulate. ---------- Post added 02-07-2016 at 22:25 ---------- Andrea Leadsom would do it in a heartbeat. Exactly. As the Independent article I have posted above makes clear!! ---------- Post added 02-07-2016 at 22:28 ---------- I'm not suggesting that North Korea and the EU are similar. I'm pointing out that democracy and stability of policy are not compatible. You automatically sacrifice one to gain the other. We gave up some democracy for policy stability being members of the EU. I didn't like it. So I voted to leave. ---------- Post added 02-07-2016 at 22:21 ---------- China has an average class size of 38. The UK is at around 21. Norway is at 22-23. That's not what matters for kids education. It is what matters to the teaching unions. Class size doesn't matter?????? When did your parents retire and where did they teach????? Jesus...I like a debate with you but you aren't half talking **** tonight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 The sampling for China was from a tiny number of cities. The system has significant issues, for example a focus on rote learning and high pressure placed on students who are not treated as individuals. It measures success only in the outcome of tests and stifles creativity. It is not a system we should seek to emulate. Depends what your goal is. Mine is to see that kids learn how to read, write and do sums. What's yours? ---------- Post added 02-07-2016 at 22:30 ---------- Class size doesn't matter?????? When did your parents retire and where did they teach????? Jesus...I like a debate with you but you aren't half talking **** tonight! My parents could not disagree with me more on these matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radan Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Depends what your goal is. Mine is to see that kids learn how to read, write and do sums. What's yours? ---------- Post added 02-07-2016 at 22:30 ---------- My parents could not disagree with me more on these matters. Oh yeah sorry you did say that before sorta but I misread it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Depends what your goal is. Mine is to see that kids learn how to read, write and do sums. What's yours? ---------- Post added 02-07-2016 at 22:30 ---------- My parents could not disagree with me more on these matters. Quality of life? I heard how the South Koreans educate their children. It didn't sound that much better than sending ours up chimneys 150 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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