I1L2T3 Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 (edited) Can I just remind people why we voted to leave the EU. Undemocratic - nobody voted for those in charge, nobody can remove them, nobody votes on what is discussed. and acted upon Unreformable - Singularly refuses to change even though most agree it's crying out for it. Politicians have tried, politicians have failed. Even David Cameron, when the stakes were highest, came back with next to nothing. A Failing institution - The EU has tremendous difficulties ahead because of the Euro, the crash and failure to address some basic problems (see above.) Greece, Spain, Italy and France are all in serious trouble and may well need bailing out in the not too distant future. Corrupt - Money unaccounted for, it has not been successfully audited for years, Excessive amounts of money 'spent' on pet projects. Move to Strasbourg every month alone costs 250 million, yes, every month! That's our money. Gravy train - Huge expences, Only the best is good enough for these guys, Massive pay for some, happy graveyard of unsuccessful politicians. Bureaucratic nightmare - Hours and hours spent haggling over details while the rest of the world moves on without them. Reams and reams of paper about not very much at all. The bigger it gets the harder it will be to get people to agree. Control over our borders - This is not saying we don't want people coming, we will happily make them welcome. But we want the right to keep control, and turn away undesirables. We live in a dangerous world, why ask for trouble? Trade - There are new and emerging markets everywhere that we can do business with, including a massive Commonwealth family right across the Globe, that we already have good relations with. Things are scary, change always is, of course people are worried. This is being encouraged by those in charge of government and media etc who are seriously <removed> off not to have got their way. It's a new experience for them... It probably will get worse before it gets better. But none of the above reasons for leaving have gone away. We need to stick together, and support each other, especially those in the first round of casualties. We can do it. The first round of casualties? Polls before the referendum indicated that 75% of people believed they would be financially no worse off after Brexit. Based on that I don't think people really understand what is going to happen. Who are the casualties going to be and what will they lose? Jobs? Businesses? Homes? Edited July 5, 2016 by Groose quoting masked swearing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Luthor Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 What about TTIP? What about it? Do you think you can trust the EU, a Conservative government, or even a Bliarite one on TTIP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 The first round of casualties? Polls before the referendum indicated that 75% of people believed they would be financially no worse off after Brexit. Based on that I don't think people really understand what is going to happen. Who are the casualties going to be and what will they lose? Jobs? Businesses? Homes? To hear people talk on here, some people are already feeling the effects, and some jobs are directly linked with being in the EU. Aren't they the first casualties? If we go into another recession we'll all suffer, but those at the bottom will feel it most. Anything bad that happens from now on will be automatically blamed on Brexit anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apelike Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 (edited) If we go into another recession we'll all suffer, but those at the bottom will feel it most. Anything bad that happens from now on will be automatically blamed on Brexit anyway. The thing is, we never got out of the last recession anyway so there is not going to be another one, just a continuation of what is already here. Cameron and Osborne, I'm sure, are happy at the EU outcome as they now will not be blamed for not reducing the UK deficit as promised and keeping everyone in austerity. Now they can blame their failings on the leave voters and Brexit, and can wipe their hands clean. As for the doom and gloom merchants on here who say we don't understand what is going to happen.. No one knows what is going to happen and they are just as bad as the parties on both sides that peddled lie after lie to persuade the public to vote one way or another. But...... thats politics..... Just to add Anna, and mainly for others to read Do not forget that the older voters may also have children, and In my case, grand-children and may have voted for what they think was best for them. Edited July 5, 2016 by apelike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perplexed Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 (edited) To my mind, any notion of accurately prophesising where the UK will be in fiscal terms, or indeed pretty much any terms, at this stage of the game is a little strange. There is so much knee jerking going on the whole country could well be on crutches next week. I think it's like trying to predict what level of degree a toddler will get as he/she turns up for their second week at nursery... We need to look a few years down the road, and despite the many confident, assertive posts on both sides of the argument, nobody knows. For what it's worth, I was a narrow remain voter. But I certainly don't believe some of the extreme views of doom promulgated by certain groups... Edited July 5, 2016 by perplexed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 (edited) The thing is, we never got out of the last recession anyway so there is not going to be another one, just a continuation of what is already here. Cameron and Osborne, I'm sure, are happy at the EU outcome as they now will not be blamed for not reducing the UK deficit as promised and keeping everyone in austerity. Now they can blame their failings on the leave voters and Brexit, and can wipe their hands clean. As for the doom and gloom merchants on here who say we don't understand what is going to happen.. No one knows what is going to happen and they are just as bad as the parties on both sides that peddled lie after lie to persuade the public to vote one way or another. But...... thats politics..... Just to add Anna, and mainly for others to read Do not forget that the older voters may also have children, and In my case, grand-children and may have voted for what they think was best for them. Economics and the pound in the pocket will trump vague political notions of sovereignty and 'taking back control' When our economy starts failing, we trigger article 50 and are staring down the barrel at years of uncertainty, probably at WTO trade rules, then what do you think is going to matter most to people? Edited July 5, 2016 by I1L2T3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbeard Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 We may not have a plan but it seems the air transport industry, in the shape of IATA have been doing their homework, this makes interesting reading. http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/Documents/economics/impact_of_brexit.pdf?utm_source=&utm_medium=&utm_campaign= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Outcome of the NFU consulation last week http://www.thepigsite.com/swinenews/42037/nfu-council-agrees-farm-policy-principles-post-brexit/ Farmers are seeking the same level of support as they now enjoy, but are hoping that some regulatory changes will take place. Interesting reading. Sorry about the link to thepigsite but it's the most concise report I could find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_W Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 So, day 11 of the consequences:Tories civil war, party leaderless Labour civil war, party arguably leaderless UKIP, essentially silent, now leaderless LibDems, muted and fighting a pro-Remain rearguard action Johnson and Farage, the Leave figureheads, have reneged campaign promises and done a runner Prime Minister is working his notice No Article 50 instrument deposited FTSE & currency riding rollercoasters Scotland talking of secession like it's 2014 again Unprecedented record numbers in NI applying for Irish passport statistically-significant increases in racist and xenophobic hate crimes EU27 leaders growing increasingly fed up waiting for the UK to do 'something' Anything I have missed? The shake up, wake up call many of us in the UK wanted to happen, dust off the propaganda, hype and exaggeration and it's happy days, the EU is welcome to the doom and gloomers, there is plenty to be concerned about there, treat yourselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Smith Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 I originally put this in the "Who will succeed Cameron" thread, but I think it should actually be on this one : Andrea Leadsom, and by implication many of the Leave campaign, just don`t get it. "Don't` be afraid" she, rather patronisingly, tells the huge number of people who want to stay in the EU. I`m not "afraid" love, I just want to remain a European citizen just as much as I want to remain a British citizen. I`m very angry that, apparently, I`m officially no longer a European citizen. No amount of patronising sound bites will paper over that chasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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