mossdog Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 .......worth a listen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apelike Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 I wasn't, I was talking about unemployment. It has consistently come down in the past years, that was including the high immigration figures that people baulk at. You introduced youth unemployment and even then, figures here for youth unemployment have come down sharply in the last few years as well. Sorry for the late replies but had Hospital this morning and have only just got out of bed. But.. The unemployment figures in the UK have been massaged to make them look like unemployment has come down. Unfortunately people on workfare now are not counted, the new benefit rules have taken thousands of the register because of sanctions of up to 6 months where no money can be claimed. An increasing amount of older people not entitled yet to a state pension are now on pension credits which are also not counted as unemployed. The youth unemployment rate has not come down sharply in the last few years. It may have decreased slightley but a lot of that is also down to the increasing use of the modern apprentice scheme where employers are paid by the taxpayer for taking the young out of the loop for a few years. You are repeating the lies that led to this leave-vote, the lies that Cameron has dumped on his country for years. Actually I have pointed out that I agree that Cameron lied and also pointed out that both sides of the campaign lied, but that is the way of politics so its not really a suprise when it happens. Unfortunatley all you remain lot that are moaning on here have also been taken in by the lies and now tar all the leave voters with the same brush by saying they only voted because of the imigration issue. But, that seems to suit your agenda. A good proportion of the remain voters are not happy with the result because its about money to them and how worse off they individually are. I notice that you were quick to edit your "poor me" post from last night that stated your pension has taken a battering, and so has your wifes and basically that you have lost money. That said quite a lot about why your attitude to the leave voters is the way it is as like the EU money is what it is about. ---------- Post added 08-07-2016 at 20:34 ---------- True and agreed. I shouldn't have said that and apologise to Apelike for saying it in the heat of the moment. Apology taken note of.. ---------- Post added 08-07-2016 at 20:39 ---------- Yes we thankfully still had the right to leave (but don't surprised if after the next EU treaty member states will require permission to have an in/out referendum) but as you know, member states had to cede sovereignty on an ever increasing list of matters. A Europe wide legal system and army is in the pipeline. You'll see. And You'll be glad we left. According to the BBC.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36722915 Quote: "There are shared concerns about European immigration and Brussels bureaucracy among the Dutch electorate. In fact, according to the rules of the Advisory Referendum Act there is no legal possibility of holding a vote on the Netherlands' membership of the EU. Referendums can cover only new legislation and treaties, and are only advisory. The only way to hold a Nexit vote would be to change existing legislation, and that is only likely to happen if Mr Wilders wins elections next year." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 This thread has taken a curious turn. All of a sudden it appears that some leavers were motivated by a desire to damage the successful middle classes, the ones they think have benefited most from us being in the EU. There seems to be a strong element of jealousy. What a way to go eh! Attempting to drag people down for being successful. What has this country come to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apelike Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) This thread has taken a curious turn. All of a sudden it appears that some leavers were motivated by a desire to damage the successful middle classes, the ones they think have benefited most from us being in the EU. There seems to be a strong element of jealousy. What a way to go eh! Attempting to drag people down for being successful. What has this country come to? If you are referring to my last post then you are so wrong. I don't have any debt or owe anyone money, I don't have outstanding credit or a mortgage, I don't have a bank account and yet are fairy well off. I can never be jealous of anyone in debt or complaining that their shares have lost value because they didn't get their way. Plus I don't work as I am now retired. So twist away! Edited July 8, 2016 by apelike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 If you are referring to my last post then you are so wrong. I don't have any debt or owe anyone money, I don't have outstanding credit or a mortgage, I don't have a bank account and yet are fairy well off. I can never be jealous of anyone in debt or complaining that their shares have lost value because they didn't get their way. So twist away! More Alan Hartley than you but there was an element of your post digging at people who are complaining because they will lose out from leaving the EU. Tell me what is wrong with complaining about a massive and deliberate shift in thd economic goalposts? What you are going to find out is that you are going to take a hit too. Everybody is. You are not immune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted July 8, 2016 Author Share Posted July 8, 2016 Sorry for the late replies but had Hospital this morning and have only just got out of bed. No need to apologise, I hope you are well. But.. The unemployment figures in the UK have been massaged to make them look like unemployment has come down. Unfortunately people on workfare now are not counted, the new benefit rules have taken thousands of the register because of sanctions of up to 6 months where no money can be claimed. An increasing amount of older people not entitled yet to a state pension are now on pension credits which are also not counted as unemployed. The youth unemployment rate has not come down sharply in the last few years. It may have decreased slightley but a lot of that is also down to the increasing use of the modern apprentice scheme where employers are paid by the taxpayer for taking the young out of the loop for a few years. We can argue about the validity of statistics until we weigh an ounce. There is no point, the simple fact is that the quality of life of the average Brit has improved significantly since the UK joined the EU. You are of the opinion that it will improve more outside of the single market, I am of the opinion that it won't. The 3rd quarter figures will tell who is right initially, the long term will tell us who was right overall. My position is - I am unhappy with the way the Leave campaign fought the battle, lying and conniving to convince a majority that the EU was bad (over decades, not just months leading up to the referendum), it is my opinion that the EU did the workers of the UK a lot of good. Actually I have pointed out that I agree that Cameron lied and also pointed out that both sides of the campaign lied, but that is the way of politics so its not really a suprise when it happens. Unfortunatley all you remain lot that are moaning on here have also been taken in by the lies and now tar all the leave voters with the same brush by saying they only voted because of the imigration issue. But, that seems to suit your agenda. I disagree, that is not the way of 'politics', it is the way of British politics. In the Netherlands a politician that lies gets nailed to the post, rightfully. I don't see Boris and co nailed to the post. I also think you will find that if the Leave campaign had been honest about immigration - either accept it and have a good economy, or deny it and have a bad economy, the vast majority of Leave voters that voted on the basis of immigration would instead have voted to stay. Also, you can not deny the sheer stupidity of people in Wales and Cornwall voting out on the basis of migration, whilst their areas are least affected by immigration and most affected by EU funding. A good proportion of the remain voters are not happy with the result because its about money to them and how worse off they individually are. I notice that you were quick to edit your "poor me" post from last night that stated your pension has taken a battering, and so has your wifes and basically that you have lost money. That said quite a lot about why your attitude to the leave voters is the way it is as like the EU money is what it is about. I didn't alter my post. I am not sure why you think I did. Yes, we get hit in the wallet, no we don't get hit anywhere near as hard as those relying on state hand-outs. The reason is simple, we don't receive state hand-outs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 This thread has taken a curious turn. All of a sudden it appears that some leavers were motivated by a desire to damage the successful middle classes, the ones they think have benefited most from us being in the EU. There seems to be a strong element of jealousy. What a way to go eh! Attempting to drag people down for being successful. What has this country come to? Amongst leave voters are the struggling self employed trades and low paid people; they have thrown the middle classes the bones that the middle classes have thrown them since 2004. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricgem2002 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Can you quote me making that claim? Or is this just a figment of your misreading of posts? ---------- Post added 08-07-2016 at 14:31 ---------- A GE is nothing like the political change of leaving the EU. Obviously. yes your post2743 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Based on what logic? I can't see how you could possibly make that claim. The entirety of the SNP, the Libdems, the Greens, 99% of the labour party and countless celebrities such as Geldoff, Izzard and Damon Albarn. All handwringing about Brexit but its their personal financial situations they care about. Pagehall doesn't exist to these people. Can't you extrapolate what the effect on those businesses will mean for the average person in the street and the nation as a whole? Frankly I care more about sovereignty and democracy. Without that we're nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted July 8, 2016 Author Share Posted July 8, 2016 Amongst leave voters are the struggling self employed trades and low paid people; they have thrown the middle classes the bones that the middle classes have thrown them since 2004. So when we keep our cleaner in a job, our local hair-dresser, our local mechanics and so on, we are throwing bones, are we? Do you even think, for a second about what you are saying, or are you just keen on a 'revolution'? The entirety of the SNP, the Libdems, the Greens, 99% of the labour party and countless celebrities such as Geldoff, Izzard and Damon Albarn. All handwringing about Brexit but its their personal financial situations they care about. Pagehall doesn't exist to these people. Pagehall doesn't exist for the vast majority of leave voters, it has been lit up like touch-paper to incite the fury of the narrow-minded masses. Frankly I care more about sovereignty and democracy. Without that we're nothing. Registered for the Tory party yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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