truman Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Why are you talking the country down? Why are you burying your head in the sand? Or sticking your fingers in your ears going "la la la la "? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Why are you talking the country down? Haahhaaahahaa, utterly delusional! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 26% of doctors are not British according to a report https://fullfact.org/immigration/some-immigration-facts-factchecked/ I'd suggest that that is a fairly large percentage and would class as mass migration.. Well, you can now rest easy, safe in the knowledge that, according to NHS and academia heads reporting early 'de-EU-ification' of their staffing and budgets that has begun in anger, many such researchers, doctors and the like are beginning to leave, and no more of them are coming. I understand from the said academia heads that even foreign student acceptances are already down. Knock yourself out reading this from migrationobservatory (Jan 2016 - reporting on 2015), allow me to cherrypick though: Further down the report there is a breakdown for male workers - 11% managerial roles 21% professional roles 10% assistant professional 4% administrative 15% skilled trade 4% personal service 5% sales 13% processing 16% elementary occupation The 32% managerial and professional (high skill) is bigger than the 29% in unskilled (processing and elementary) is it not? For female workers the focus is more on personal service than skilled trades and managerial, but at a 28% high-skilled to 21% low-skilled the difference is even starker. The report goes on to state that compared with their UK-born counterparts, the foreign-born workforce has become more educated. Like I said - focussing on the low-hanging fruit blinds people into thinking migration isn't useful for the economy. Add to this that the EU migrant population is generally of working age, contributing. The UK population is also carrying a large number of people that can not work (too old, not able). These migrants would do OK in an immigration system similar to the one Australia has. Please spare me the "but Australia has more immigrants per head of population than the UK", that's because Australia has a small population and they want to increase it, and the point is they are CHOOSING to do this and are doing it selectively, not just opening the door to every man and his wife/wives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 These migrants would do OK in an immigration system similar to the one Australia has. Please spare me the "but Australia has more immigrants per head of population than the UK", that's because Australia has a small population and they want to increase it, and the point is they are CHOOSING to do this and are doing it selectively, not just opening the door to every man and his wife/wives! How many EU immigrants in the UK do you think are not working? Genuine question.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mort Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Bickering removed. Keep it civil and on topic please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 These migrants would do OK in an immigration system similar to the one Australia has. Please spare me the "but Australia has more immigrants per head of population than the UK", that's because Australia has a small population and they want to increase it, and the point is they are CHOOSING to do this and are doing it selectively, not just opening the door to every man and his wife/wives! So I break down one of your arguments and then you throw up a new argument. Let me break that one down too. Explain how migration is going to be cut with an Australian system? It appears to me that in 2015 the number of non EU migrants was greater than the number of EU migrants, it appears your government wants these people here. I will repeat what is becoming my motto on here - the only way migration is going to come down significantly in the UK is if the economy crashes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petminder Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 That report is from 2007. Since the crash unemployment has shot up to 8/8,5% and then come down to where it was pre-crash (more or less). Tell me, do the unemployed count towards real wage calculations? Do people sitting at home claiming JSA/benefits add to the economy? Or are we better off with near full employment? Seems to me that, once you realise a lot of people want to work part-time there are few people on those hourly rates you talk about. The vast majority of the employed population is in full time employment. But lets regress society to the lowest common denominator, it helps? The scientific field of economy, despite what many economists argue, is a constructivist field of science. There are constant changes to the way things are interpreted and that is how it should be, however, there are some facts that are undeniable, cost of living, real wage (ie. wage growth compared to inflation), national GDP, national debt-ratios etc. All these point downwards at the moment. If the GDP of Britain grows at the rate that was predicted before Brexit it will be a miracle, a slow down in GDP growth means a slow down in deficit reduction - more cuts, more cuts means a reduction of living standards, especially combined with an increased cost of living and a depression in real wages due to inflation. There is an expression for it, stagflation. We aren't there yet, but all the pointers are there. What about the effect of mass migration on the top part of the economy. The researchers, high level managers, doctors and nurses etc. You know, the people that pull an economy up? All too easily forgotten because you don't 'see' us, but we're here (for now). Do you genuinely not see that Teresa May promising to bring migration to tens of thousands and then not doing anything about it says a lot about the importance of migration for the economy? Yes it is from 2007 and it shows that high levels of immigration did suppress the wages of those in the bottom half of the pay scale. Something you claimed was untrue and instead claiming it was caused by the 2008 crash, people were concerned about the levels of immigration and the negative impact it had them well before the crash of 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 I will repeat what is becoming my motto on here - the only way migration is going to come down significantly in the UK is if the economy crashes. Quite, May's just been softening on the immigration pledge in PMQ's: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/20/theresa-may-drops-migration-target-deadline-after-mocking-corbyn-in-pmqs which isn't really a surprise since she probably has some facts at her disposal, rather than emotive blabber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 I'm starting to think that there is more to this Brexit than meets the eye. Since when did the little people get what they want against the wishes of the establishment? I think the government anticipates unacceptable EU legislation coming down the line and so wants out, but they want it to appear as though its the people's fault, sorry, choice, so they held a referendum it knew it was going to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 These migrants would do OK in an immigration system similar to the one Australia has.You miss the elementary point: they'd have to want to come here in the first place, to run the gambit of an Australian-style PBS (which has been in place in the UK since 2008 for non-EU immigrants, btw). Taking the example of Universities with their R&D departments and projects reportedly under-funded as from this September, then unless the UK Gvt steps up to the plate and stopgaps the EU funding shortfall real quick, why would EU and non-EU post-graduate students and professionals come to the UK, when there won't be studying materials and activities for them? That's just one example, the same principle extends to most other fields of professional activity at the moment. Including the NHS, senior Trust heads of which recently reported that they're struggling more than ever to bring in EU and non-EU doctors and senior nursing staff since the Brexit vote. That's in no small part due to the UK's continuing testiculation about what will become of EU nationals in the UK post Brexit. Why take an NHS job and the risk of getting kicked out in 2 years, when Australia's immigration system is known and unlikely to change, and the job is better-valued and better-paid there? Easily calculation for a young professional with high-value marketable skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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