The consequence thread (Brexit)

[Petminder]

You miss the elementary point: they'd have to want to come here in the first place, to run the gambit of an Australian-style PBS (which has been in place in the UK since 2008 for non-EU immigrants, btw).

 

Taking the example of Universities with their R&D departments and projects reportedly under-funded as from this September, then unless the UK Gvt steps up to the plate and stopgaps the EU funding shortfall real quick, why would EU and non-EU post-graduate students and professionals come to the UK, when there won't be studying materials and activities for them?

 

That's just one example, the same principle extends to most other fields of professional activity at the moment. Including the NHS, senior Trust heads of which recently reported that they're struggling more than ever to bring in EU and non-EU doctors and senior nursing staff since the Brexit vote.

 

That's in no small part due to the UK's continuing testiculation about what will become of EU nationals in the UK post Brexit. Why take an NHS job and the risk of getting kicked out in 2 years, when Australia's immigration system is known and unlikely to change, and the job is better-valued and better-paid there? Easily calculation for a young professional with high-value marketable skills.

 

This will be good news for British people wanting to work in the NHS, there isn't a shortage of young people wanting jobs in the NHS, but there is a shortage of training places which will have to be addressed by government.

[L00b]

This will be good news for British people wanting to work in the NHS, there isn't a shortage of young people wanting jobs in the NHS, but there is a shortage of training places which will have to be addressed by government.

You might want to tell the government there will also be a shortage of doctors and nurses while the young people are being trained.

 

That's after the government "sorts out the training places", and preferably the education system upstream as well (since it is clearly failing to supply enough ready-educated youths, that the NHS has to send out searching parties and import trained EU and non-EU immigrants by the busload)

 

In the meantime, erm...

Edited July 20, 2016 by L00b

[truman]

This will be good news for British people wanting to work in the NHS, there isn't a shortage of young people wanting jobs in the NHS, but there is a shortage of training places which will have to be addressed by government.

 

Why? Why will the government stop letting non EU doctors/nurses in?

[tzijlstra]

Yes it is from 2007 and it shows that high levels of immigration did suppress the wages of those in the bottom half of the pay scale. Something you claimed was untrue and instead claiming it was caused by the 2008 crash, people were concerned about the levels of immigration and the negative impact it had them well before the crash of 2008.

 

The way your argument goes is similar to others seeking to find a scapegoat rather than to look at the reality. Here is the opening line from your report from 2007:

 

Immigration to the UK has made a positive contribution to the average wage increase experienced by non-immigrant workers

 

Lower paid people will always feel a financial crisis more, they are closer to the breadline. They are also more likely to seek for an excuse outside of facts.

[Petminder]

Why? Why will the government stop letting non EU doctors/nurses in?

 

They won't stop people coming here to work in the NHS, but if the NHS is struggling to bring in EU/non-EU doctors and nurses the government will have to increase the number of training places, this is good news for young British people wanting to work in the NHS.

[truman]

They won't stop people coming here to work in the NHS, but if the NHS is struggling to bring in EU/non-EU doctors and nurses the government will have to increase the number of training places, this is good news for young British people wanting to work in the NHS.

 

Why will it struggle? How many EU nationals are here working in the NHS..Will they not want to come here? Will we not let them in? Will the ones here be sent home? I don't think the problem will be any worse than it is now..

[Petminder]

The way your argument goes is similar to others seeking to find a scapegoat rather than to look at the reality. Here is the opening line from your report from 2007:

 

 

 

Lower paid people will always feel a financial crisis more, they are closer to the breadline. They are also more likely to seek for an excuse outside of facts.

 

The reality is that immigration suppressed and still suppresses the wages of those people in the bottom half of the pay scale, you can't expect the low paid to ignore this fact just because it had a positive effect on people in the top half of the pay scale.

 

 

Mass migration is driving down the wages being offered to British jobseekers, a major report by the Bank of England has found.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/12063052/Mass-migration-driving-down-wages-offered-to-British-jobseekers.html

 

---------- Post added 20-07-2016 at 16:34 ----------

 

Why will it struggle? How many EU nationals are here working in the NHS..Will they not want to come here? Will we not let them in? Will the ones here be sent home? I don't think the problem will be any worse than it is now..

 

It was a claim made by L00b, not me.

[L00b]

Why will it struggle? How many EU nationals are here working in the NHS..Will they not want to come here? Will we not let them in? Will the ones here be sent home? I don't think the problem will be any worse than it is now[/b]..

All your answers in these links: 1, 2, 3.

It was a claim made by L00b, not me.

Addressed to you, and to which you have not replied (other than paraphrasing it in your reply to truman). Edited July 20, 2016 by L00b

[tzijlstra]

The reality is that immigration suppressed and still suppresses the wages of those people in the bottom half of the pay scale, you can't expect the low paid to ignore this fact just because it had a positive effect on people in the top half of the pay scale.

 

 

Mass migration is driving down the wages being offered to British jobseekers, a major report by the Bank of England has found.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/12063052/Mass-migration-driving-down-wages-offered-to-British-jobseekers.html

 

As is seemingly the norm with the Telegraph, it does not refer to the actual report (as in - shows which report it is and where it can be found). So I did a small Google on the subject and came across this gem.

 

Ironically the 'new' report is in fact a revision of an old report that claimed mass migration was driving down wages and, instead of the Telegraph reporting that this 'impact' was significantly smaller than initially thought it would be, the impact was reduced from a whopping 5% reduction in wages for the lowest paid to a 0.5% reduction.

 

Curiously that original report came out just before the crisis. It turns out that the crisis (and EU regulation to level wages so migrants can't undercut natives, more of which is being proposed as we speak) has actually helped equalise things quite significantly in terms of the indicators that original report used.

 

That is peculiar isn't it? Who would have thought a paper that has been bleating about immigration for decades would miss-report such findings?

[Petminder]

As is seemingly the norm with the Telegraph, it does not refer to the actual report (as in - shows which report it is and where it can be found). So I did a small Google on the subject and came across this gem.

 

Ironically the 'new' report is in fact a revision of an old report that claimed mass migration was driving down wages and, instead of the Telegraph reporting that this 'impact' was significantly smaller than initially thought it would be, the impact was reduced from a whopping 5% reduction in wages for the lowest paid to a 0.5% reduction.

 

Curiously that original report came out just before the crisis. It turns out that the crisis (and EU regulation to level wages so migrants can't undercut natives, more of which is being proposed as we speak) has actually helped equalise things quite significantly in terms of the indicators that original report used.

 

That is peculiar isn't it? Who would have thought a paper that has been bleating about immigration for decades would miss-report such findings?

 

 

I can see that your mind is made up and that no amount of common sense or reports will change your opinion.

 

Just a last thought, if the number of people with your skills significantly increased and they all wanted jobs in your field of work, do you think your wage would fall or rise?

 

---------- Post added 20-07-2016 at 17:27 ----------

 

All your answers in these links: 1, 2, 3.

Addressed to you, and to which you have not replied (other than paraphrasing it in your reply to truman).

 

You made the claim in a post addressed to Alan Hartley, not me.