chalga Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Good for you. Which bit? How's the weather? Eastern Europe,and it's hot,has been for weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 It's not just wages though...the fruit and veg pickers move from farm to farm over the season do you think Brits will be happy to live in caravans etc.for the season? Genuine question... They might, if it was a decent wage. Brits aren't averse to work related travel and being away their homes and families for a period of time, people like long distance lorry drivers and engineering/building contractors etc for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 They might, if it was a decent wage. Brits aren't averse to work related travel and being away their homes and families for a period of time, people like long distance lorry drivers and engineering/building contractors etc for instance. What's a decent wage for veg picking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petminder Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 The National Farmers’ Union (NFU) is seeking an urgent meeting with the Brexit minister, David Davis, to discuss special measures for migrant seasonal workers while the industry body British Summer Fruits (BSF) has warned that unless the government finds a way to keep migrants growers will sell up and move to France or elsewhere in the EU. The £1.2bn industry relies virtually 100% on workers from Europe because British workers “do not want to get up at 6am and work on their hands and knees all day”, said Laurence Olins, chairman of BSF https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/20/brexit-farm-labour-shortages-fruit-vegetable-harvests-national-farmers-union The government should be looking for ways to get British unemployed working on farms and only allowing immigration when there are no British workers available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 The government should be looking for ways to get British unemployed working on farms and only allowing immigration when there are no British workers available. I take it you didn't read my long post then? ---------- Post added 20-07-2016 at 21:10 ---------- They might, if it was a decent wage. Brits aren't averse to work related travel and being away their homes and families for a period of time, people like long distance lorry drivers and engineering/building contractors etc for instance. Then why didn't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 What's a decent wage for veg picking? Fruit and veg is always in very high demand, and the pay should reflect the very early start and backbreaking nature of the work involved in producing and picking it. It wants to be at least £8 an hour increasing incrementally to £10 an hour if you stick it out and put the hours and effort in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petminder Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Good luck finding 100,000 specialists in my field. You might take a while. I estimate it to be around 500 academics and 10,000 entrepreneurs and consultants in various highly skilled and paid jobs around the world. 100 of those academics are in the UK, many of whom are from abroad. As you keep challenging that point, provide me with a chance of an elaboration on how economies work in a simplified (but still an A4 of text) case. Let's say there is a population of 100,000. 10,000 of those ensure that the basics work, they plough the fields, do the plumbing and electrics, clean up, ensure that rubbish is processed and buildings are maintained and built. 10,000 provide the social structures one is accustomed to, they provide basic care, work for local governments, provide daycare for children and look after the elderly. 6,000 work in retail, they ensure we can buy food, clothes and other goods we need. 6,000 work in management, they help with accounts, ensure that there are plans to be followed and so on. 4,000 work in teaching, they train the kids that are going to take those jobs in future. 3.000 are professionals, legal, medical, clergy and so on. 800 are 'high achievers', entrepreneurs, highly skilled specialists such as bankers, researchers and so on. 200 are the true power, they run the national government and largest businesses, they make decisions that affect us all. That leaves 50,000 people that aren't economically active. 5,000 of which are registered unemployed, they can be from any walk of life, they might be unemployed for a few months, a few years or permanently. Those that are unemployed for a few months change around a lot. 45 of the 50,000 are elderly and those that can not work for a variety of reasons, whether this is due to disability, because they are too young or because they are in further and higher education. The important figure here is the 5,000 unemployed. 2,000 of which are simply in between jobs, they will find work soon enough. But if the economy grows with 2% those 2,000 disappear of the employment market. If the economy grows with another 2% the year after it will need another 2,000 but the remaining 3,000 are indisposed, they don't want to move from their hometown, are not skilled enough and what ever else it may be. So the economy needs to find people elsewhere to continue to grow, fortunately it has access to foreign workers, this means the economy can keep on growing regardless. It means that the 45,000 that don't contribute directly to the nation's GDP don't have to be swept up and put to work anyway. Now imagine that this nation's economy is running at a significant deficit, if the GDP does not grow, it will not be able to pay off its debts any more, if the GDP shrinks it will have to cut rigorously (even more rigorously) in the services it provides. That means the 45,000 can not be looked after as well any more. Now the crucial factor - this economy is not the only economy, it has to compete with other economies. If labour becomes too expensive it starts to lose out in that competition. Labour is, after all, the key cost to any production or service. What does the economy do to ensure it remains competitive? It goes and looks for the cheaper labour alternatives. Is that wrong? Probably, but it has to do something to keep costs under control, normally it would do so by having high enough unemployment, but the problem is there is no high enough unemployment available, so it has to get labour elsewhere. Of course, there is another factor that might really boost the economy, those high achievers, in general, contribute far more to the economy than their wages. The products they invent, the services they can provide, they make the economy stand out in that competitive world. Of course, these people don't come from nowhere, they are highly educated, highly specialised... they come from all over the world, that is what is known as the knowledge-economy. China understands this, I could get a job in China tomorrow, including a very plush apartment and very handsome wage. The problem is, I am quite fond of Europe, as is my wife, so I'd like to remain in Europe, particularly in the nation where my skills are most needed, ie. where the other high achievers are, after all, they are the ones creating the sort of work I need. Unfortunately, the 20,000 that work at the lower end of the spectrum have decided to make this country a far less appealing destination for people like me, so guess what? I am looking around for other opportunities. Not China for me, although I know several who have made that move already, but Europe still has plenty to offer, as does Canada, the US and Australia and New Zealand. Once our wealth creation potential leaves these shores, what do you think is going to happen to those 20,000 and their families? Do you think money is magically going to appear because a few new factories are built, or because those pesky foreigners finally left? Do you truly believe that is the way forward? Sounds like you are one of the people that isn't adversely affected by immigration, and you appear to have no empathy for those that are. The fact remains that millions of British people are adversely affected and their wages have been suppressed, and when something adversely affects someone they tend oppose it. You support it because you appear to be a beneficiary of it and you oppose anyone that supports the people that are adversely affected by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Joker Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 They might, if it was a decent wage. Brits aren't averse to work related travel and being away their homes and families for a period of time, people like long distance lorry drivers and engineering/building contractors etc for instance. oh Alan, your naivety is so charming Brits hate being away from their families, and with very good reason. Remember John Terry? Every England player fears Terry's gonna have it away with their missus when they're on international duty. Is it any wonder we're always the first team to be sent home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petminder Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 I'll refer you to your own post #3435, which quotes my post addressed to Alan and in which you specifically comment about that claim. I'll take it, from your studious attempts at deflection (twice), that you're out of argument, so let's leave it there and cinsider my point made and admitted, shall we? You made a claim and I expressed the opinion that if true its good news for British people wanting to work in the NHS that are currently denied the opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Sounds like you are one of the people that isn't adversely affected by immigration, and you appear to have no empathy for those that are. The fact remains that millions of British people are adversely affected and their wages have been suppressed, and when something adversely affects someone they tend oppose it. You support it because you appear to be a beneficiary of it and you oppose anyone that supports the people that are adversely affected by it. In a nutshell then you think that if there are no immigrant workers then UK salaries will go up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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