Petminder Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 It's not just wages though...the fruit and veg pickers move from farm to farm over the season do you think Brits will be happy to live in caravans etc.for the season? Genuine question... Farm workers haven't always had to live in such poor conditions or move all over the country. Local British people used to do the jobs but low wages and poor conditions drove them away from the industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Farm workers haven't always had to live in such poor conditions or move all over the country. Local British people used to do the jobs but low wages and poor conditions drove them away from the industry. And then we invented tractors, fewer people needed to work on farms full time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petminder Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 This is such a failed argument for several reasons. The key reason being that these migrant workers are having to live here. On a (likely) minimum wage. How much money does that leave at the end of the month Alan? My relative lives in North Wales, her neighbours are Polish migrant workers, two couples that share the terrace next to her. All four work full time, for minimum wage (or now slightly above, I last spoke to them 3 years ago), the joint household income is over 45K, but all their excess income goes to two annual trips home for the four of them. They get 3 weeks a year off work. Maybe they save around 1K per person each year, hardly going to buy them a castle in Poland, is it now? Many live in poor quality over occupied housing, sheds and caravans, its not something we should be happy with nor should we expect British unemployed to give up their benefits in order to work hard whilst living in such conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Fruit and veg is always in very high demand, and the pay should reflect the very early start and backbreaking nature of the work involved in producing and picking it. It wants to be at least £8 an hour increasing incrementally to £10 an hour if you stick it out and put the hours and effort in. So,to use your figures, you think an 80p an hour increase over the NMW is enough to tempt people onto the field? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petminder Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 I take it you didn't read my long post then? ---------- Post added 20-07-2016 at 21:10 ---------- Then why didn't they? I didn't need to know how brilliant and irreplaceable you think you are, the discussion was about how immigration affects people with low skills and low wages, not how it benefits people like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apelike Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Excellent. Fabulous. Really good work. Now source me a 30-slot / 2-drive / LTO6 (LTO7?) backup library for under £7000. I though you said you were thinking of upgrading not they you had to upgrade so maybe its not necessary to upgrade at all and save even more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 Sounds like you are one of the people that isn't adversely affected by immigration, and you appear to have no empathy for those that are. The fact remains that millions of British people are adversely affected and their wages have been suppressed, and when something adversely affects someone they tend oppose it. You support it because you appear to be a beneficiary of it and you oppose anyone that supports the people that are adversely affected by it. Nobody is adversely impacted by immigration when everybody's standard of living rises. We have less crime, more gadgets than ever before, better schooling, better healthcare, better job-regulations, less taxes (especially in the case of low-earners) than ever in my life-time. Also, you haven't understood one iota of my post. If immigration to this country stops, the GDP suffers, the poor suffer first. Economical crisis? The poor suffer first. That isn't the fault of immigration, or a crisis, it is the fault of the economy not working properly. Many live in poor quality over occupied housing, sheds and caravans, its not something we should be happy with nor should we expect British unemployed to give up their benefits in order to work hard whilst living in such conditions. I don't know anybody who lives in a poorer quality house than I grew up in, in the Netherlands. In fact, I have a friend who empties mobile toilets for a living and he lives in a very decent terrace with his kids. Oh woh, how terrible we all have it. And yes, we should expect the 3% unemployed to give up their benefits in order to work hard, so they can improve their conditions and get on in life. If they did, that would almost eliminate the need for migration. If you want to stop migration, get more people into work. ---------- Post added 20-07-2016 at 21:35 ---------- I didn't need to know how brilliant and irreplaceable you think you are, the discussion was about how immigration affects people with low skills and low wages, not how it benefits people like you. It benefits all of us, some of us have a better understanding of that than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petminder Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 In a nutshell then you think that if there are no immigrant workers then UK salaries will go up? Some will rise and some will fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Some will rise and some will fall. Which will fall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petminder Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 And then we invented tractors, fewer people needed to work on farms full time.... We also invented car washes and then discovered cheap foreign labour, maybe the farming problem can be solved by automating it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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