tzijlstra Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 Its not a change, its the same using different words. I find your superiority complex amusing. We already asserted to find each other amusing. Unfortunately for you I don't exactly suffer from a superiority complex, I just analyse what people say and debate why, when they are wrong, they are wrong. Just in case you didn't bother to follow the discussion, this is the point I corrected. Like correcting a child saying 2x2=4 by telling them it is 5? And you didn't even know what median and average meant. Yes, that is why I have a PhD and an MSc. Fortunate for me, it adds to my superiority complex. I'd still like to know what you think the median wage says about anything we talked about. In fact, why don't you just look up median wage development with the ONS and then post the result here. How do you account for the people that were worse off before the crash because of immigration. Which people are these? I keep asking for concrete evidence of this claim, perhaps you can point this out? Prior to 2008 you can't blame the crash for something that was caused by flooding the market with low skilled cheap labour. Are you saying the 2008 crash was caused by low skilled cheap labour? Or are you saying people were worse off prior to 2008 when that was in fact the time that real wages in this country soared? It is all fine and well stating these things, but without evidence you will forgive me for not changing my mind, or indeed for thinking that you are really rather clueless on the subject. ---------- Post added 22-07-2016 at 13:16 ---------- Let me ask you again, for at least the fifth time, where did I write that I was worse off due to immigration? Refuting your claim that 'Nobody' is worse off, is not the same as saying I am worse off due to immigration. You claim that people were worse off due to immigration, I'd like some tangible evidence of that point. So I asked you, repeatedly how you were worse off due to immigration. Now we know you weren't, which goes to prove my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_bloke Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Talk about going round in circles. No, people are not worse off due to immigration, they are worse off due to the crash of 2008. And it is increasingly beginning to look like they will be worse off due to the crash of 2016. Now let me ask, again, are you worse off due to immigration? I've given an (ignored, unsurprisingly) link to a recent report by the Bank of England that proved for low paid semi skilled and unskilled sectors immigration lowers wages. Feel free to argue with the BoE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 I've given an (ignored, unsurprisingly) link to a recent report by the Bank of England that proved for low paid semi skilled and unskilled sectors immigration lowers wages. Feel free to argue with the BoE. I didn't ignore it, although I am not sure if I replied to your actual post or that of someone else. That report is actually a revision of a report in 2009 where the negative impact was considered to be 5%, now they revised it to 0.5%. I am not arguing with the bank of England, but I will argue that a wage depression of 0,5% is barely significant AND that lower wages are not necessarily a bad thing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alhlkh Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 We already asserted to find each other amusing. Unfortunately for you I don't exactly suffer from a superiority complex, I just analyse what people say and debate why, when they are wrong, they are wrong. Like correcting a child saying 2x2=4 by telling them it is 5? Yes, that is why I have a PhD and an MSc. Fortunate for me, it adds to my superiority complex. I'd still like to know what you think the median wage says about anything we talked about. In fact, why don't you just look up median wage development with the ONS and then post the result here. Which people are these? I keep asking for concrete evidence of this claim, perhaps you can point this out? Are you saying the 2008 crash was caused by low skilled cheap labour? Or are you saying people were worse off prior to 2008 when that was in fact the time that real wages in this country soared? It is all fine and well stating these things, but without evidence you will forgive me for not changing my mind, or indeed for thinking that you are really rather clueless on the subject. ---------- Post added 22-07-2016 at 13:16 ---------- You claim that people were worse off due to immigration, I'd like some tangible evidence of that point. So I asked you, repeatedly how you were worse off due to immigration. Now we know you weren't, which goes to prove my point. You are the one that used average figures to counter a claim that some people are worse off because of immigration. Now can we move on and discuss the topic or are you going to persist in correcting what you perceive to be the poor use of English and bragging about your qualification, both characteristics of someone with a superiority complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_bloke Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 I didn't ignore it, although I am not sure if I replied to your actual post or that of someone else. That report is actually a revision of a report in 2009 where the negative impact was considered to be 5%, now they revised it to 0.5%. I am not arguing with the bank of England, but I will argue that a wage depression of 0,5% is barely significant AND that lower wages are not necessarily a bad thing at all. It may not be significant, but it's a quantifiable proven link. So to suggest that it doesn't exist isn't right. You are correct, a 0.5% reduction isn't a great deal but tell people on low wages they aren't getting a pay increase because of immigration - or rather, because Mateusz and Szymon are their co-workers - and see how they feel about it. It only adds fuel to the fire that low paid workers think they are paid badly because migrant co-workers will work for peanuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berberis Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Another indicator that Brexit has caused damage to our economy. Something the leave supporters will disregard I suspect. Brexit causes dramatic drop in UK economy, data suggests http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36864273 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 It may not be significant, but it's a quantifiable proven link. So to suggest that it doesn't exist isn't right. You are correct, a 0.5% reduction isn't a great deal but tell people on low wages they aren't getting a pay increase because of immigration - or rather, because Mateusz and Szymon are their co-workers - and see how they feel about it. It only adds fuel to the fire that low paid workers think they are paid badly because migrant co-workers will work for peanuts. But that fire should be aimed at the financial crisis of 2008, not the immigrant population. Not only that, Mateusz, Szymon and Agnata are going to be regulated by EU law, coming pretty soon, to stop employers being allowed to work immigrants at lower rates than they offer native folk. Not only that, the UK already has such a rule in place, it is just that the national government has not enforced it appropriately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NERVY-OWL Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Another indicator that Brexit has caused damage to our economy. Something the leave supporters will disregard I suspect. Brexit causes dramatic drop in UK economy, data suggests http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36864273 in the short term it might of but once the dust settles it will hopefully pick up again. the remain camp can throw whatever they want at me but i'm still happy with my vote, in the long run i'm still confident we will have a better britain not being tied to the eu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukdobby Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 in the short term it might of but once the dust settles it will hopefully pick up again. the remain camp can throw whatever they want at me but i'm still happy with my vote, in the long run i'm still confident we will have a better britain not being tied to the eu That's the word....HOPEFULLY,let's hope it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NERVY-OWL Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 That's the word....HOPEFULLY,let's hope it does. either way it is ifs and buts. all i know i wasn't happy with the way the EU thought they could tell us how to run our country, now aslong as we do leave any mistakes can be our own not some nobody accross the ocean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts