The consequence thread (Brexit)

[foxy lady]

SNP haven't got a leg to stand on.

 

They certainly haven't now. The latest post Brexit opinion poll shows the Scots still want to be part of the UK.

 

Another myth exploded.

 

Majority of Scots still favour staying in the UK after Brexit vote

 

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/07/30/brexit-fails-boost-support-scottish-independence/

 

Scots favour the union over both EU membership and access to the single market

[I1L2T3]

.......some reasons why people voted for Brexit,from an American perspective!

 

On June 23, the UK had a referendum in which 52% of voters opted to leave the European Union. I applaud Britain for leaving the corrupt, costly, and dysfunctional EU. It may be the best thing that’s happened to Europe since the end of World War 2. And, I think, it signals the start of some major new trends.

 

In principle, the idea of the European Union sounded good. All the signatory countries joined a customs union so goods and people could flow freely.

 

The idea was to both increase general prosperity and decrease the chances of another war. It sounds very libertarian—in principle. But in practice it turned out very differently. And may wind up doing the opposite of its intended purpose.

 

Europeans could have had all the benefits of free trade simply by eliminating all import duties and quotas—a very simple and costless solution. Having duties and quotas amount to putting your own country under embargo. They increase the costs and decrease the availability of foreign goods and services; that lowers a country’s competitiveness while decreasing its standard of living. It sounds insane.

 

Why would any country want to do that? Because some industries and unions in the country want to keep out competition. Duties and quotas can help them, even though hurting the country at large. Politicians also like duties and quotas because they give them additional power, tax revenue, and opportunities for bribery.

 

If a country really wants to prosper to the greatest degree, it will unilaterally drop all duties and quotas. No trade agreements are necessary.

 

But that would have been too easy for the Eurocrats. Instead, they set up a gigantic bureaucracy in Brussels. They did eliminate internal duties between EU members, but at the cost of regulating everything within the EU while retaining duties and quotas against non-EU members. The EU employs 50,000 functionaries, imbued with dirigiste attitudes. Pound for pound they’re much more obstructive than those working within the Washington Beltway. Europe is, after all, the ancestral home of cultural Marxism, and the people who take it most seriously all want to work in Brussels.

 

The EU has reduced the standard of living of the average European. But perhaps its creation was inevitable since the average European is overwhelmingly socialist or fascist in philosophy. They seem to love the idea of government, as big, and strong, and with as many layers as possible. But the bigger and more complex any organization gets, the more likely it is to fail. My prediction that the Continent will one day just be a giant petting zoo for the Chinese is intact—assuming the current wave of migrants approve.

 

400 million Europeans now have to deal with regulation coming from Brussels as well as from their town councils, provinces, and national governments. On a local level there was at least some semblance of control since those laws were passed by people with the same language, ethnicity, and culture. The laws were destructive, but at least they were imposed from within. But the EU adds thousands of new laws and regulations, created by a class of people who are responsible mainly to other members of their own class in Brussels. They’re united by the ridiculous ideas they picked up in university from their Marxist professors.

 

EU regulations dictate the shapes of bananas and cucumbers. Manufacturers of bottled water aren’t allowed to say it fights dehydration. There are laws against unsupervised children blowing up balloons. Laws against unlabeled olive oil in restaurants, the amount of cinnamon in certain pastries, the maximum size of vacuum cleaner motors, the disposal of tea bags, and the “correct” methods of producing hundreds of varieties of French cheeses.

 

You’ve likely heard of these regs simply because they’re so outrageous and nonsensical. They’re annoying, but actually quite trivial. What you don’t hear about is a vast body of agricultural, industrial, and labor regulations because they are technical and affect businesses more than consumers. Meanwhile, 10,000 registered lobbyists circulate around Brussels inducing Eurocrats to pass laws favoring this or outlawing that and distribute an annual budget of about 150 billion euros among the politically favored. That is where the real damage is done.

 

The EU also aggravates the current problem with migrants from the Middle East and Africa. All Western European governments are massive welfare states with free food, housing, medical care, schooling, and living expenses for citizens. And even for residents who aren’t citizens. Benefits like these will naturally draw in poor people from poor countries. That’s why France, Belgium, Holland, and the UK already have substantial and rapidly growing minorities of Muslims. The governments of Sweden and Norway are actually importing these people, at great expense. The EU not only promotes bad policies, but makes the whole continent bear the burden of mistakes made by its most misguided members.

 

The free-market solution to the migrant situation is quite simple. If all the property of a country is privately owned, anyone can come and stay as long as he can pay for his accommodations. When even the streets and parks are privately owned, trespassers and squatters have a problem. A country with 100% private property, and zero welfare, would attract people who like those conditions. And they’d undoubtedly be welcome as individuals. But “migration” would be impossible.

 

Some have said that Britain shouldn’t Brexit because it will cause chaos. There’s some truth to that—but not because what Britain did was in any way destructive. Their action is best compared to that of passengers on a sinking ship who are the first ones to board a lifeboat. Nietzsche had it right when he said “that which is about to fall deserves to be pushed.” Any chaos that occurs is the result of the EU’s flaws, not Britain’s exit. It’s as if you have a 100-story building which is about to collapse. It’s better to arrange a controlled demolition than wait for it to fall at a random time.

 

Please remember to provide a link when you quote an article.

 

As for the article it's just full of discredited neoliberal jibbersish and is describing precisely the policies that have led to Trump becoming so popular. Trump doesn't want free trade. He wants to build walls. He wants to protect US industry and he wants to repatriate jobs lost from the US.

 

The article is by no means the typical view any more, and the rise of Trump is a direct reaction to the failure of the ideas in it.

[andyofborg]

......He wants to protect US industry and he wants to repatriate jobs lost from the US.....

 

I appreciate this is probably a discussion worthy of a new thread but has Trump said how he is going to repatriate the lost jobs

[The Joker]

I appreciate this is probably a discussion worthy of a new thread but has Trump said how he is going to repatriate the lost jobs

 

heh heh . . . let's hope he has a better plan than Mitt Romney did.

 

Romney also made promises during his election campaign to repatriate jobs back to the US. . . this after making millions by asset-stripping companies and shipping the jobs overseas of course.

[andyofborg]

heh heh . . . let's hope he has a better plan than Mitt Romney did.

 

Romney also made promises during his election campaign to repatriate jobs back to the US. . . this after making millions by asset-stripping companies and shipping the jobs overseas of course.

 

Indeed, and Trump, I understand, has also had thing maufactured outside the US which could have been manufactured inside it.

 

I haven't being paying a great deal of attention to what he's been saying and I wondered if he had actually come out with a plan to do it now he's realised the error of his ways.

 

I can't actually see how he could do it, even if he wanted too.

[max]

Please remember to provide a link when you quote an article.

 

Here it is: Casey Daily Dispatch

 

From their web page:

 

Led by multi-millionaire speculator and New York Times Best-Selling author Doug Casey, The Casey Report is one of the world’s most respected investment advisories.

 

Anyone heard of this investment advisory?

[altus]

Here it is: Casey Daily Dispatch

His Wikipedia page describes him as a libertarian and an anarcho-capitalist. It's not a view "from an American perspective" as much as the view from the perspective of one American. One who's views are at odds with the the vast majority of Americans. It's no wonder that mossdog neglected to mention the source.

[woahthere]

His Wikipedia page describes him as a libertarian and an anarcho-capitalist. It's not a view "from an American perspective" as much as the view from the perspective of one American. One who's views are at odds with the the vast majority of Americans. It's no wonder that mossdog neglected to mention the source.

 

If wiki is to be believed he's a man who knows how to make money from 'economic turmoil'. No relation to his support of Brexit I'm sure.

[glennpickard]

I agree with some of Mossdog's positions, esp. the ones about the inefficiencies of the EU, its bloated bureaucracies, its restrictions on trade, promotion of full blown welfare states, and the need to get back to being a trading block rather than a geo political entity in order to deal with China, NAFTA etc. UK has to be a manufacturer again, efficient and financially buoyant. I am doubtful of this outcome in the current EU. So, although still nervous about the Brexit vote, and we may not yet know all the repercussions, it is beginning to appear to me that the vote may be for the best, as I hope.

 

I do disagree with much of the assertions Mossdog has included about Marxism, socialist professors, and that all the people who want to work in Brussels have a Marxist leaning ! However I did not like the Brussels slogan of "Ever closer integration."

 

50,000 EU Bureaucrats in addition to all the ones that still remain in all the 27 member countries ? If true, it would be interesting to know what has happened to the standard of living today in the EU countries from 15-25 years ago, to tax levels, welfare payment levels, benefit levels, employment levels and sovereign debt levels.

 

I do believe migration(regardless of the countries) is a huge problem for the UK in terms of the space the country has, and the ability of its system to handle such a large influx of people in a relatively short space of time (same concerns in Germany, Sweden etc, but my primary concern is the UK). 100% of private ownership would make no difference, as most States in the USA rent private property to accommodate immigrants and the poor, all paid for by the taxpayer

[Chez2]

I agree with some of Mossdog's positions, esp. the ones about the inefficiencies of the EU, its bloated bureaucracies, its restrictions on trade, promotion of full blown welfare states, and the need to get back to being a trading block rather than a geo political entity in order to deal with China, NAFTA etc. UK has to be a manufacturer again, efficient and financially buoyant. I am doubtful of this outcome in the current EU. So, although still nervous about the Brexit vote, and we may not yet know all the repercussions, it is beginning to appear to me that the vote may be for the best, as I hope.

 

I do disagree with much of the assertions Mossdog has included about Marxism, socialist professors, and that all the people who want to work in Brussels have a Marxist leaning ! However I did not like the Brussels slogan of "Ever closer integration."

 

50,000 EU Bureaucrats in addition to all the ones that still remain in all the 27 member countries ? If true, it would be interesting to know what has happened to the standard of living today in the EU countries from 15-25 years ago, to tax levels, welfare payment levels, benefit levels, employment levels and sovereign debt levels.

 

I do believe migration(regardless of the countries) is a huge problem for the UK in terms of the space the country has, and the ability of its system to handle such a large influx of people in a relatively short space of time (same concerns in Germany, Sweden etc, but my primary concern is the UK). 100% of private ownership would make no difference, as most States in the USA rent private property to accommodate immigrants and the poor, all paid for by the taxpayer

 

The EU makes trade easier between EU countries in our industry.

 

What makes you think we don't manufacture? Virtually all our customers are manufacturers, we see what affects them and their businesses. Do you really think we can manufacture things cheaper than China? What makes you think we are going to change from a net importer to exporter?

 

Do you regularly read and follow EU legislation and then see how each member state interprets and implements those regs in their own country? I do, it affects our industry significantly.