The consequence thread (Brexit)

[El Cid]

I agree with some of Mossdog's positions, esp. the ones about the inefficiencies of the EU, its bloated bureaucracies, its restrictions on trade, promotion of full blown welfare states, and the need to get back to being a trading block rather than a geo political entity in order to deal with China, NAFTA etc. UK has to be a manufacturer again, efficient and financially buoyant.

 

 

Nice to see someone blaming the EU instead of Labour, for the welfare state; but I think every UK Government should carry the can for that.

 

Dont you think that manufacturing has decreased because the UK now has high wages, when compared to other countries?

Rich countries have service dominated economies, generally between 70-78% services.

How much is our low manufacturing down to the EU, very little I would say.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_sector_composition

[glennpickard]

Yes higher wages are a challenge in consumer manufacturing. Both the US and the UK face the same challenge. They have to find production efficiencies and, dare I say it, part of the remuneration to people participating in mass production might need to be in the form of production and quality bonuses. The US is getting back into production of quality furniture, clothing etc, so could the UK do so ?

One other thought relative to manufacturing. A UK "designated area" whereby corporate entities establishing new production thereto, would be eligible for lower corporate tax rates. Possibly one time start up grants ? And same for the people who worked in the designated area, lower income taxes.

The Chinese manipulate their currency to maximize advantage for export goods, so no in the present situation, it is probably difficult to produce a lower cost than them. But Chinese costs are rising, workplace updates are necessary and unions are being spoken about (I realize the challenge of unions in China). There are also many voices now that condemn China's currency manipulation.

 

However, if the quality is in place, and the government would promote the benefits of home made items, some inroads may be possible, esp. if UK manufacturers had their own regulations to work with, not the EUs. If the cost of a UK widget was 15% higher than a Chinese widget, but I knew the quality was there, I would buy the UK widget. And of course the knock on effect of related job growth as each unemployed person gets back to work.

[andyofborg]

A UK "designated area" whereby corporate entities establishing new production thereto, would be eligible for lower corporate tax rates. Possibly one time start up grants ? And same for the people who worked in the designated area, lower income taxes.

 

variations of those themes have been tried over the years, they have had mixed results. one of the downsides is less reputable firms tend to up sticks and move when the incentives run out.

 

if UK manufacturers had their own regulations to work with, not the EUs.

 

I'm not sure that would make much difference. i've never seen a convincing argument that eu regulations were generally bad and were significantly worse than the home grown alternatives would have been had we not been in the EU.

[I1L2T3]

Yes higher wages are a challenge in consumer manufacturing. Both the US and the UK face the same challenge. They have to find production efficiencies and, dare I say it, part of the remuneration to people participating in mass production might need to be in the form of production and quality bonuses. The US is getting back into production of quality furniture, clothing etc, so could the UK do so ?

One other thought relative to manufacturing. A UK "designated area" whereby corporate entities establishing new production thereto, would be eligible for lower corporate tax rates. Possibly one time start up grants ? And same for the people who worked in the designated area, lower income taxes.

The Chinese manipulate their currency to maximize advantage for export goods, so no in the present situation, it is probably difficult to produce a lower cost than them. But Chinese costs are rising, workplace updates are necessary and unions are being spoken about (I realize the challenge of unions in China). There are also many voices now that condemn China's currency manipulation.

 

However, if the quality is in place, and the government would promote the benefits of home made items, some inroads may be possible, esp. if UK manufacturers had their own regulations to work with, not the EUs. If the cost of a UK widget was 15% higher than a Chinese widget, but I knew the quality was there, I would buy the UK widget. And of course the knock on effect of related job growth as each unemployed person gets back to work.

 

This is insanely naive. The only way the government will promote UK-produced goods is if it will be profitable for their cronies. It won't be so forget it.

 

The UK that the likes of Liam Fox want is not one where UK people get to produce quality goods for UK consumers. If you think that you want your head tested. They are only concerned about enriching the upper echelons by creaming as much profit from globalised free trade as possible. Your vision of a happy UK workforce trundling along to work every morning to make all the good stuff the UK needs is about as far away from their vision as it could get.

 

They don't care about the UK.

[Chez2]

Yes higher wages are a challenge in consumer manufacturing. Both the US and the UK face the same challenge. They have to find production efficiencies and, dare I say it, part of the remuneration to people participating in mass production might need to be in the form of production and quality bonuses. The US is getting back into production of quality furniture, clothing etc, so could the UK do so ?

One other thought relative to manufacturing. A UK "designated area" whereby corporate entities establishing new production thereto, would be eligible for lower corporate tax rates. Possibly one time start up grants ? And same for the people who worked in the designated area, lower income taxes.

The Chinese manipulate their currency to maximize advantage for export goods, so no in the present situation, it is probably difficult to produce a lower cost than them. But Chinese costs are rising, workplace updates are necessary and unions are being spoken about (I realize the challenge of unions in China). There are also many voices now that condemn China's currency manipulation.

 

However, if the quality is in place, and the government would promote the benefits of home made items, some inroads may be possible, esp. if UK manufacturers had their own regulations to work with, not the EUs. If the cost of a UK widget was 15% higher than a Chinese widget, but I knew the quality was there, I would buy the UK widget. And of course the knock on effect of related job growth as each unemployed person gets back to work.

 

A lot of companies do produce quality goods here in the UK in an ethical, sustainable manner but that makes them more expensive. How often do you see people come on this forum and ask for something "cheap"? They never even mention quality or value for money.

 

As I've already said, we make our own regs once EU regs have been passed. If you followed this process you would see how differently our regs are from other EU countries. Often we can be too stringent and cause ourselves problems. Sometimes even totally missing the spirit of the regs and turn something positive into a problem.

 

The Govenrment can't persuade people to look at quality if joe public want to buy cheap. Its often false economy to buy cheap anyway.

[kidley]

even when we leave the eu and there regs, we will still abide by them we have to if we want to trade with them.But that will be our choice.

[El Cid]

The FTSE 250 is still down from June 23rd, the FTSE 100 is up, I guess that is down to Sterling being down. Why would that be the case?

[Chez2]

even when we leave the eu and there regs, we will still abide by them we have to if we want to trade with them.But that will be our choice.

 

A lot of domestic and business waste is sent abroad for recycling or recovery. These regs only allow movement between EU countries so I doubt they will stay open to us, we won't have a choice. I take it you don't regularly follow these consultations and regs on the EU website and various UK websites?

[kidley]

A lot of domestic and business waste is sent abroad for recycling or recovery. These regs only allow movement between EU countries so I doubt they will stay open to us, we won't have a choice. I take it you don't regularly follow these consultations and regs on the EU website and various UK websites?

 

Yes you are correct in saying i dont follow the eu or uk web sights.

but one thing i am sure of is, we will still trade with the eu when we are no longer a member, not to is unthinkable, and i am talking generally not specifically,

[Berberis]

A lot of domestic and business waste is sent abroad for recycling or recovery. These regs only allow movement between EU countries so I doubt they will stay open to us, we won't have a choice. I take it you don't regularly follow these consultations and regs on the EU website and various UK websites?

 

The majority of plastic and paper goes to China.

 

I know of an aerospace company that has to destroy anything they wish to recycle as the chinese go through it looking for parts they can identify and then reproduce.