apelike Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 If the government of the day decided to totally ignore the referendum result, that would not be undemocratic. It would as the democratic process has already taken place. If the government ignored the results and not trigger A50, that would be the undemocratic bit. We have a parliamentary democracy. Parliament decides. That's how our democracy works. But parliament has already decided by allowing an act of parliament to hold the referendum in the first place. In a democracy the people decide and MP's in parliament are there to carry out their wishes, if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santo Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 It would as the democratic process has already taken place. If the government ignored the results and not trigger A50, that would be the undemocratic bit. But parliament has already decided by allowing an act of parliament to hold the referendum in the first place. In a democracy the people decide and MP's in parliament are there to carry out their wishes, if possible. Why don't you understand the point? The referendum was advisory for the government. We don't live in a direct democracy. If we did what you said would be true but we don't so it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ez8004 Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) Err, no. The past 3 referendums were not legally binding including the AV system, but all were approved by Parliament for the government to hold them. No new legislation is needed for this government to enact A50. It could go to parliament for approval that's all, but as it is not legally binding the government can also ignore any "not approved "outcome. Parliament is in a dodgy situation, on uncharted ground and any attempt to derail the outcome would be unprecedented, not to mention undemocratic. Err, no. The European Communities Act 1972 does not need to be repealed or overturned. Most Act's of Parliament and laws made are not repealed but only amended and that all that needs to be done here. This Act will in part still be needed in place as repealing the whole will be a legal nightmare. Amendments to the Act will be needed that's all, and sometimes the government can do so without further approval of parliament. Get it? Still wrong. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum,_2011 "This was only the second nationwide referendum to be held (the first being the EEC referendum in 1975) and the first that was not merely consultative; being "post-legislative" and therefore committing the government to give effect to its decision" The AV referendum was legally binding. Get it? Or can't you read? Also, the requirement that only legislation can supersede existing legislation is fundamental in the parliamentary process. The government still need new legislation to get around the European Communities Act 1972 if Article 50 is to be triggered. It is not hard to understand. Also, it is not unprecedented for the government to ignore a referendum result especially about the EU. It has happened 8 times in the last 15 years in other EU counties. Edited August 12, 2016 by ez8004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Still wrong. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum,_2011 "This was only the second nationwide referendum to be held (the first being the EEC referendum in 1975) and the first that was not merely consultative; being "post-legislative" and therefore committing the government to give effect to its decision" The AV referendum was legally binding. Get it? Or can't you read? Also, the requirement that only legislation can supersede existing legislation is fundamental in the parliamentary process. The government still need new legislation to get around the European Communities Act 1972 if Article 50 is to be triggered. It is not hard to understand. Also, it is not unprecedented for the government to ignore a referendum result especially about the EU. It has happened 8 times in the last 15 years in other EU counties. If they want to face annihilation at the next election. Fool the public once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apelike Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Still wrong. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum,_2011 "This was only the second nationwide referendum to be held (the first being the EEC referendum in 1975) and the first that was not merely consultative; being "post-legislative" and therefore committing the government to give effect to its decision" The AV referendum was legally binding. Get it? Or can't you read? Yes I can read and you seem to have skipped over the bit that says "citation needed." You will also notice that on other wiki pages and in other articles it states that the AV referendum was also advisory and as that is correct no citation is needed to back it up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_in_the_United_Kingdom Also, the requirement that only legislation can supersede existing legislation is fundamental in the parliamentary process. The government still need new legislation to get around the European Communities Act 1972 if Article 50 is to be triggered. It is not hard to understand. Or course its not hard to understand when you realise that it does not need to be overturned only amended just like other Acts are, because of that there is nothing to get around. Repealing the whole act would create chaos not only in the UK but in the EU as too many laws that are integrated now depend on it. In those cases it is normal to amend an Act not destroy it. Also, it is not unprecedented for the government to ignore a referendum result especially about the EU. It has happened 8 times in the last 15 years in other EU counties. Of course its not unprecedented as the referendum was advisory and the government can ignore the result. The question now is.. will they? What happens in other countries in the EU has no bearing on the past referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eater Sundae Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 It would as the democratic process has already taken place. If the government ignored the results and not trigger A50, that would be the undemocratic bit. But parliament has already decided by allowing an act of parliament to hold the referendum in the first place. In a democracy the people decide and MP's in parliament are there to carry out their wishes, if possible. Failure to trigger Article 50 may be undemocratic in your eyes, but it wouldn't be in mine. It would certainly be totally legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Who are you going to blame if it doesn't change? Ultimately, Theresa May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apelike Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Failure to trigger Article 50 may be undemocratic in your eyes, but it wouldn't be in mine. It would certainly be totally legal. I agree it would be totally legal and have not stated otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santo Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 If they want to face annihilation at the next election. Fool the public once. Yeah yeah. All the parties except UKIP, the Conservatives (who were officially neutral) and one of the NI parties favoured Remain. Most Conservative MPs favoured remain. Who will annihilate the Tories? The SNP will dominate Scotland, Labour have turned into an absolute unelectable joke and UKIP no-longer has the Messiah. Plus, GEs use FPTP which favours the Conservative Party. I think you might be dreaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Yeah yeah. All the parties except UKIP, the Conservatives (who were officially neutral) and one of the NI parties favoured Remain. Most Conservative MPs favoured remain. Who will annihilate the Tories? The SNP will dominate Scotland, Labour have turned into an absolute unelectable joke and UKIP no-longer has the Messiah. Plus, GEs use FPTP which favours the Conservative Party. I think you might be dreaming. What happened between 1997 and 2010 then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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