retep Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Yeah yeah. All the parties except UKIP, the Conservatives (who were officially neutral) and one of the NI parties favoured Remain. Most Conservative MPs favoured remain. Who will annihilate the Tories? The SNP will dominate Scotland, Labour have turned into an absolute unelectable joke and UKIP no-longer has the Messiah. Plus, GEs use FPTP which favours the Conservative Party. I think you might be dreaming. The remainers would be a tad peed off with the conservatives for calling a referendum and the leavers a tad peed off with the conservatives not enacting article 50, so not reliable by either side, what the MP's favour wouldn't matter if they don't get the votes. Will the EU still be alive by the next election not much point in staying by the side of a corpse, get it buried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 The remainers would be a tad peed off with the conservatives for calling a referendum and the leavers a tad peed off with the conservatives not enacting article 50, so not reliable by either side, what the MP's favour wouldn't matter if they don't get the votes. Will the EU still be alive by the next election not much point in staying by the side of a corpse, get it buried. Next years elections in Germany, France and is it Norway?, will be very interesting. The German and French people in particular would be insane to vote back in Merkel and Hollande. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santo Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 The remainers would be a tad peed off with the conservatives for calling a referendum and the leavers a tad peed off with the conservatives not enacting article 50, so not reliable by either side, what the MP's favour wouldn't matter if they don't get the votes. Will the EU still be alive by the next election not much point in staying by the side of a corpse, get it buried. Peed off Tories who backed remain won't vote for Red Jezza because Cameron was forced into a referendum. And they won't vote UKIP either. ---------- Post added 12-08-2016 at 17:22 ---------- Next years elections in Germany, France and is it Norway?, will be very interesting. The German and French people in particular would be insane to vote back in Merkel and Hollande. Norway isn't in the EU. The idea Merkel is losing large % points in popularity is a right wing myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted August 12, 2016 Author Share Posted August 12, 2016 Next years elections in Germany, France and is it Norway?, will be very interesting. The German and French people in particular would be insane to vote back in Merkel and Hollande. Based on what? Your dislike of Merkel and Hollande? Hollande will probably be pushed out of the way by his own party, L00b will have better insight in that when he comes back from holiday (I suspect) but Merkel is in with a very realistic chance of re-election. The other election you are thinking of is the Netherlands and the way things are shaping up there Wilders will probably see some gains, but he always has a huge rating spike in the run-up to elections and then a huge drop-off when it comes to the actual ballots. I don't think it will be very different this time either. And even if he does get gains, he will never form a majority as all the other parties have blown his idea to have a Nexit referendum out of the water. In the mean-time polls across Europe are showing that more and more people are becoming pro-EU, rather than anti-EU, with people demanding real action on further integration now the pesky Brits are out of the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Norway isn't in the EU. It was the Netherlands I was thinking of. Close enough. Norway's election result will still be one to watch as well. though ---------- Post added 12-08-2016 at 17:32 ---------- Based on what? Your dislike of Merkel and Hollande? Hollande will probably be pushed out of the way by his own party, L00b will have better insight in that when he comes back from holiday (I suspect) but Merkel is in with a very realistic chance of re-election. The other election you are thinking of is the Netherlands and the way things are shaping up there Wilders will probably see some gains, but he always has a huge rating spike in the run-up to elections and then a huge drop-off when it comes to the actual ballots. I don't think it will be very different this time either. And even if he does get gains, he will never form a majority as all the other parties have blown his idea to have a Nexit referendum out of the water. In the mean-time polls across Europe are showing that more and more people are becoming pro-EU, rather than anti-EU, with people demanding real action on further integration now the pesky Brits are out of the way. Merkels policies on immigration have been an utter calamity not just for Germany but the whole of southern and western Europe. As for people across Europe becoming more pro-EU, I don't think so, but time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santo Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 It was the Netherlands I was thinking of. Close enough. Norway's election result will still be one to watch as well. though ---------- Post added 12-08-2016 at 17:32 ---------- Merkels policies on immigration have been an utter calamity not just for Germany but the whole of southern and western Europe. As for people across Europe becoming more pro-EU, I don't think so, but time will tell. Maybe so, but if you think her policy has done her that much damage that she won't win the next election, you should widen your reading list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Maybe so, but if you think her policy has done her that much damage that she won't win the next election, you should widen your reading list. If it looks like she's going to lose it will get rigged in her favour just like what happened in the recent Austrian election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santo Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 If it looks like she's going to lose it will get rigged in her favour just like what happened in the recent Austrian election. Oh no. Go to Germany now Alan, stop the madness!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelFargate Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 It's certainly a conundrum for the Tories. Half of them are indeed ultra-neoliberals who do indeed favour the free movement of labour, whereas the other half, and of course their UKIP splinter group, are in the populist anti-immigration camp. For all the trauma, the referendum hasn't erased that division. Though I still think it's worth an outside bet that migration will be restricted by the EU itself, given the refugee and terrorism crises. That would spare everyone's blushes. ---------- Post added 12-08-2016 at 13:41 ---------- Labour have a few problems of their own at the moment! Plus they're not in the government. Plus about 2/3 of their voters plumped for Remain in the referendum, according to YouGov. You make some very good points here. Although they tend to wrap their support for mass immigration in moral hyperbole, 'neo-liberal' Tories have historically been attracted to an 'open door' migration policy because of the bottomless supply of cheap foreign labour it provides, regardless of the consequences for the wages, living standards or the cultural heritage of the indigenous population (or, for that matter, on the 'brain drain' effects on the provider countries). It is significant that, although many Tories opposed the 1948 Nationality Act, which in effect offered an open door into the UK for all citizens within the Empire or Commonwealth (a combined population of around 800 million at the time), the Tories did not immediately repeal this ludicrous piece of legislation when they regained power, probably for the reasons stated above. In the current Tory party, the 'conundrum' you mention is perhaps personified by, on the one hand, 'spreadsheet Phil' Hammond and on the other by David Davis. Only time will tell which strand of Conservative thinking will come out on top in the Brexit negotiations. Incidentally, 'Captain Swing' would probably have been a Brexiter, in that 'his' activists and supporters were seeking to defend their wages, livelihoods and cultural heritage from changes in demand conditions for labour imposed on them by capitalists seeking maximum profit, regardless of the effects on working people. Regarding your other point about the possibility that the EU might itself restrict cross-border migration and also migration from outside the Union, this would be ironic indeed, because had this happened before the 23rd June, the likelihood is that the referendum would have had a different outcome. However, this possibility in my view is based on an underestimation of the inflexibility and dogmatic nature of the EU, which continues to hold free movement as an article of faith, even though the principle was designed for circumstances which are very different to those prevailing today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey104 Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Lol, they weren't whining about being "ruled" by the EU tho Course not! They are remainers, keep up.:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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