unbeliever Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 With the outgoing PM presumably leaving a note on the desk, "Sorry old c*ck, sorry to leave it in such a mess." I find it amusing that you expect anybody other than the current PM to be in No. 10 after the 2020 GE. Who do you imagine is in a position to challenge her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Did anyone see the programme about the 80s? A bit hit and miss in its theorising for me. Footage of the poll tax riots though (which was the 90s but I think he wanted to conclude with the end of Thatcher). If we don't leave will the riots be worse? What is worse than a riot? So far as I have read (which isn't a massive amount) the early 20th century General Strike had little effect and only lasted a few days. If the Government decide we won't exit can the public realistically do anything? People have talked about it costing MPs their seats at elections. Will it? There is currently no effective opposition in Westminster. That's a fair point. I think there would be riots. There's been a spike in racially motivated violence when the brexiters got their way I can only imagine what would happen when they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 That's a fair point. I think there would be riots. There's been a spike in racially motivated violence when the brexiters got their way I can only imagine what would happen when they don't. As big as the spike when Corbyn's supporters show up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 (edited) I get the distinct impression that this was an article written on the back of a fag-packet without the expectation if it ever being used.Whilst that may well be true... In reality, the process will be made up as they go along like it always is, with the words of the treaty used as a vague guide and no more.and whilst the process will indeed be "made up as they go along", since the process is not defined or otherwise codified by implementing regulations or the like... ...the 2 year deadline is binding and a 'hard' deadline, whether the completion of the process within that timescale in practice is realistic or not. Which is why the requirement to obtain unanimous consent for an extension of time beyond 2 years from the EU member states favours them rather than the UK: no unanimous consent means no extension, no extension means if the 2 year is up before the ink on the deal is dry then WTO Rules would apply overnight. "Chaos", someone said? An understatement, surely Which is all why May is trying to obtain undertakings from the other EU member states that they will consent to an extension, before she triggers Article 50 (refer my previous post). And which is she's unlikely to get, since this is a negotiation at arms' length: no freebies Edited August 19, 2016 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Whilst that may well be true... and whilst the process will indeed be "made up as they go along", since the process is not defined or otherwise codified by implementing regulations or the like... ...the 2 year deadline is binding and 'hard', whether the completion of the process within that timescale in practice is realistic or not. Which is why the requirement to obtain unanimous consent for an extension of time beyond 2 years from the EU member states favours them rather than the UK: no unanimous consent means no extension, no extension means if the 2 year is up before the ink on the deal is dry then WTO Rules follow overnight. Which is all why May is trying to obtain undertakings from the other EU member states that they will consent to an extension before triggering Article 50 (refer my previous post). And which is she's unlikely to get, since this is a negotiation at arms' length: no freebies The alternative approach is simply to repeal the 1972 act and dare them to start imposing trade barriers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 (edited) The alternative approach is simply to repeal the 1972 act and dare them to start imposing trade barriers.You want to think that one through a bit more. 'tis friendly advice meant in good nature Particularly the instant ramifications, insofar as domestic law itself is concerned. And notwithstanding the fact that, insofar as trade is concerned, doing so would have the exact same effect of precipitating the relevance and application of the WTO Rules overnight just the same. Whether the EU would drive up trade barriers or not (and my moderately educated guess is 'not'...because WTO Rules ), would be the least of your worries. Edited August 19, 2016 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 You want to think that one through a bit more. Particularly the instant ramifications, insofar as domestic law itself is concerned. 'tis friendly advice meant in good nature We're leaving. If they want to be reasonable about it then so shall we. If not, we know where the door is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santo Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 (edited) That's a fair point. I think there would be riots. There's been a spike in racially motivated violence when the brexiters got their way I can only imagine what would happen when they don't. Who else but May can cancel Brexit? If she's as Thatchery as is claimed she won't back down to rioters. Having said that, the Tories did cancel Poll Tax, eventually. Not immediately after. The last big riots were in London in 2011 and they were quelled when rumours circulated online that the army were being called in. When would be the best time to cancel Brexit? It's all about burying bad news. If we beat China in Rio? Amusingly Leave.EU have received a strongly worded letter from the British Olympic Committee demanding they desist using photos of our athletes in their media. Edited August 19, 2016 by Santo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 (edited) We're leaving. If they want to be reasonable about it then so shall we. If not, we know where the door is.You seem to believe, as many Brexiters do, that the EU owes the UK an easy ride with the forthcoming negotiations, not to say a living. So can I ask: is asking for a free lunch "reasonable" in your world? Because that's exactly what May is asking for, right now. We've been over this IIRC. Edited August 19, 2016 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Can I ask: is asking for a free lunch "reasonable" in your world? Because that's exactly what May is asking for, right now. Obviously that's not literally true. We want free trade, but not collective government. It is a fallacy to suggest that one cannot have one of these without the other. If they want free trade and collective government, that's up to them. These are separate decisions. ---------- Post added 19-08-2016 at 14:26 ---------- We've been over this IIRC. Indeed we have. I don't think we resolved anything. Other than agreeing that the Asterix books are cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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