The consequence thread (Brexit)

[Crosser]

I needed treatment in Romania for what looked like Lyme disease.

 

Turned up, they heard I was English and that was it. Apart from having to talk to the doctor in German it was indistinguishable from the NHS.

 

I paid just as much as I would in the UK as well.

 

That's a shame, glad it wasn't life threatening, I bet you'd have been missed on here.

[L00b]

Look at the recent EU directive on public procurement

That's not privatisation of the NHS, it's pan-european regulation of public procurement procedures, with the main aim of promoting and facilitating pan-european transparent tendering for supplies, equipment, staff etc. (which the NHS has always bought in from the private sector).

 

Means the NHS must allow German, Dutch, French (etc) suppliers to tender for supplies as well as Brit suppliers, doesn't mean the NHS must sell hospitals or outsource deliverables to the private sector.

 

This is a good thing, it promotes competition and therefore lower pricing of supplies to the NHS. End of the nudge-nudge, wink-wink arrangements with British distributor-importers selling £10 toilet seats to the NHS for £500+ 'if you know whadda mean' (and yes, I know a couple...nice gravy train, if you can get on it).

Edited September 1, 2016 by L00b

[Obelix]

That's a shame, glad it wasn't life threatening, I bet you'd have been missed on here.

 

Probably not. I ask questions that the regulars find awkward to answer...

[Justin Smith]

I was listening to Any Questions on R4 last night, and someone asked a question (I can`t remember the exact wording) but it was basically "which is more important, free trade with the EU or restrictions on immigration ?" What is so worrying, and emphasises that the Brexit campaign are, and have always been, living in a fantasyland, is I knew what the pro Brexit members of the panel would say. Basically, and I said this out loud in the car just after the question was asked, "the Brexit lot won`t answer the question !". And they didn`t (nor do they ever). True to the script the pro Brexit Tory didn`t choose one or the other, she only said "we can have both". I was hoping Dimble would put her on the spot but he failed to do so. Maybe he thought the fact she hadn`t answered the question was obvious and would speak volumes. But that was the major error the Remain camp made in the campaign, a lot of people don`t actually think that deeply.

I doubt very much that the EU will give the UK free access to the single market without free movement of people or the payment of huge sums of money. At the end of the day if they do that, the whole of the EU project will start to unravel, so they won`t, and why should they ? It`s probably more likely, but by no means certain, that the EU itself could start to introduce certain restrictions on the free movement of people within the EU itself (because of internal pressures, i.e. the right in various EU richer countries). But that would then beg the question, shouldn`t the UK have another referendum because the whole question has changed ? Again we all know what the Brexit campaign will say "we had a referendum, we don`t want a another one (whatever has changed)". Or, to put it another way "we`re not listening"......

Edited September 3, 2016 by Justin Smith

[I1L2T3]

I was listening to Any Questions on R4 last night, and someone asked a question (I can`t remember the exact wording) but it was basically "which is more important, free trade with the EU or restrictions on immigration ?" What is so worrying, and emphasises that the Brexit campaign are, and have always been, living in a fantasyland, is I knew what the pro Brexit members of the panel would say. Basically, and I said this out loud in the car just after the question was asked, "the Brexit lot won`t answer the question !". And they didn`t (nor do they ever). True to the script the pro Brexit Tory didn`t choose one or the other, she only said "we can have both". I was hoping Dimble would put her on the spot but he failed to do so. Maybe he thought the fact she hadn`t answered the question was obvious and would speak volumes. But that was the major error the Remain camp made in the campaign, a lot of people don`t actually think that deeply.

I doubt very much that the EU will give the UK free access to the single market without free movement of people or the payment of huge sums of money. At the end of the day if they do that, the whole of the EU project will start to unravel, so they won`t, and why should they ? It`s probably more likely, but by no means certain, that the EU itself could start to introduce certain restrictions on the free movement of people within the EU itself (because of internal pressures, i.e. the right in various EU richer countries). But that would then beg the question, shouldn`t the UK have another referendum because the whole question has changed ? Again we all know what the Brexit campaign will say "we had a referendum, we don`t want a another one (whatever has changed)". Or, to put it another way "we`re not listening"......

 

The answer is obvious but not immediately obvious. They do want both and they do believe they can have both but not in the way most people would think.

 

The Brexit leaders have a neoliberal globalist ideological drive that posits

1. All countries should be able to make free trade deals with each other. The EU prevents the UK doing this. They do want the UK to have free trade with the EU and they see no reason why we can't. That free trade deal would be the same sort of free trade deal as the UK would have with China or Russia or Japan. But they have not connected the dots and don't understand that a free trade deals are never truly free pure free trade deals. The fallback of the WTO allows countries like China to heavily protect and subsidise their industries even when the neoliberal ideologues believe they are doing free trade - look at the USA for an example.

 

2. Free movement. Again the EU free movement rules are counter to the neoliberal ideologues view of how migration flows should work. The ideology does include a belief that powerful migratory flows should happen. The problem with the EU is it prevents them happening in the right way. In a globalist model say if they thought one best way for migration to happen was powerful migratory inflows from the EU into the UK then they would support it 100%. Duncan Smith, Fox etc... would be telling till they were blue in the face that it should be allowed. Their problem is they don't think the EU should dictate to us in any way how those flows should happen.

 

There you have have it. What they want is to align the UK fully with the globalisation model. In that model the EU is a barrier to a pure implementation of the ideology. That doesn't mean to say we won't have a free trade deal with the EU or that there still won't be powerful migratory flows between the EU and the UK. They want those things to happen most probably but in a way that fits their ideology.

 

They are not being honest. They know we won't like what they have planned.

Edited September 3, 2016 by I1L2T3

[ricgem2002]

looks like 38 degrees members have come up with a plan over brexit http://diybrexit.38degrees.org.uk/ what do others think ?

[tinfoilhat]

Another little nugget from the Japanese - they might move out their manufacturing plants out. If we go with WTO rules I can very much see why.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37270372

[I1L2T3]

Another little nugget from the Japanese - they might move out their manufacturing plants out. If we go with WTO rules I can very much see why.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37270372

 

From an ideological perspective the Brexit leaders wouldn't care. That would be trade happening as they expect with manufacturing finding the best cost locations. From a political perspective they would have to pretend to care but they wouldn't be bothered if those jobs were lost. All part of the process of globalisation.

 

People have no idea what they have voted for here. They really don't.

[ricgem2002]

People have no idea what they have voted for here. They really don't.

lets find out shall we

[tinfoilhat]

From an ideological perspective the Brexit leaders wouldn't care. That would be trade happening as they expect with manufacturing finding the best cost locations. From a political perspective they would have to pretend to care but they wouldn't be bothered if those jobs were lost. All part of the process of globalisation.

 

People have no idea what they have voted for here. They really don't.

 

Really? Closet-brexiter mr corbyn surely wouldn't like jobs going abroad. I did have a little chuckle at the mail or express wildly celebrating a potential trade deal with austrailia.

 

---------- Post added 04-09-2016 at 15:45 ----------

 

lets find out shall we

 

Did you read the link? Do you think the Japanese are lying?