The consequence thread (Brexit)

[unbeliever]

Pssst.... Britian is still in the EU. The only change so far is the markets have reduced the value of sterling.

 

Yes I understand that. I'm referring to the predictions of instant doom rather than some of the other predictions which were for doom on actual exit.

[DnAuK]

 

The remain side with its doom-prophesying did not speak with one voice, but many of the negative predictions from serious commentators and political heavyweights have already failed to materialise as promised.

 

Oh not that old line again surely? "Everyone said it was going to be bad and it hasn't been!" Really? I read a wonderful article the other day in answer to this which basically said something like:

 

"Everyone is saying Brexit hasn't had the effect many feared. Its as though we were still a member of the EU and freely able to trade with the other member states. Well, that's because at the moment we are still an member of the EU and freely able to trade with other member states...

 

Or, to put it more technically, the 5h1t hasn't hit the fan yet. And Theresa May is trying to delay turning on the fan for as long as possible"

[unbeliever]

Did you vote to leave the EU (the actual question of the referendum) or the Single Market, may I ask?

 

I argued to leave the single market. Since the leave campaign in general mostly argued the same, the government now feels obliged to do so in order to accommodate the spirit as well as the letter of the referendum result.

 

---------- Post added 03-10-2016 at 14:50 ----------

 

Oh not that old line again surely? "Everyone said it was going to be bad and it hasn't been!" Really? I read a wonderful article the other day in answer to this which basically said something like:

 

"Everyone is saying Brexit hasn't had the effect many feared. Its as though we were still a member of the EU and freely able to trade with the other member states. Well, that's because at the moment we are still an member of the EU and freely able to trade with other member states...

 

Or, to put it more technically, the 5h1t hasn't hit the fan yet. And Theresa May is trying to delay turning on the fan for as long as possible"

 

Please don't pretend that the predictions to which I refer were not made.

[tinfoilhat]

There was a contest to decide if we should leave. I sided with leave. We're leaving.

 

The remain side with its doom-prophesying did not speak with one voice, but many of the negative predictions from serious commentators and political heavyweights have already failed to materialise as promised.

A drop in the value of the pound is nowhere near as scary as you imply.

 

Its cost me a chunk of change. My supplier specifically pointed to the drop in value of the pound. Its, for me at least, a tangible impact of brexit.

 

In fairness things haven't been as bad as I thought and growth in manufacturing is to be applauded. I don't want us to lose.

[DnAuK]

Please don't pretend that the predictions to which I refer were not made.

 

As many seem to pretend that the promises made by the Leave camp weren't made?

[unbeliever]

As many seem to pretend that the promises made by the Leave camp weren't made?

 

Before and since the vote I was very open in my condemnation of leave promises that were at best highly misleading. It would be nice if more of the remainers would reciprocate.

 

---------- Post added 03-10-2016 at 14:59 ----------

 

Its cost me a chunk of change. My supplier specifically pointed to the drop in value of the pound. Its, for me at least, a tangible impact of brexit.

 

In fairness things haven't been as bad as I thought and growth in manufacturing is to be applauded. I don't want us to lose.

 

This is the kind of honest commentary I respect and appreciate. Thank you.

Sorry to hear that you've lost out.

 

I'm less invested personally, but my operating budget at work is straining a little from the increase in the cost in £ of IT equipment.

Edited October 3, 2016 by unbeliever

[Flexo]

growth in manufacturing is to be applauded. I don't want us to lose.

 

Oh dear!

 

Have you noticed how often the Brexit ministers say "free trade". They are following the economic ideas of a guy called Patrick Minford who advocates dropping all trade protections and using WTO rules.

 

He writes: Leaving the EU and eliminating this protection would, according to these figures, raise service output and effectively eliminate manufacturing in the long run.

 

His ideas are founded on ideology but bad economics. The LSE has a robust critique.

[Obelix]

There was a contest to decide if we should leave. I sided with leave. We're leaving.

 

The remain side with its doom-prophesying did not speak with one voice, but many of the negative predictions from serious commentators and political heavyweights have already failed to materialise as promised.

A drop in the value of the pound is nowhere near as scary as you imply.

 

What was promised that has failed to materialise? So far we haven't left the EU yet - so the "promises" made cannot yet be tested.

 

Meanwhile, the brexiters admitted they effectively lied about £350 million a week, amongst many many other lies....

 

---------- Post added 03-10-2016 at 15:12 ----------

 

That's not my intention.

 

It's what you did though.

 

---------- Post added 03-10-2016 at 15:13 ----------

 

You mean everything is going along OK despite the remoaners like yourself moaning, you are contributing whilst taking a good living out of this country, not bad for an out of work librarian who couldn't make it in his own country.

 

I have no reason to slate Penistone any tax avoidance is between him and the tax man.

 

You always know when a point really gets peter up tight because he reverts to his nationalistic tripe from his BNP "glory" days...

[unbeliever]

It's what you did though.

 

So it's a case of full political union or get stuffed?

[L00b]

I argued to leave the single market.

Fair enough, and -not for the first time- thank you for your debating honesty and candour.

 

However, and at the risk of appearing uncough, may I remind you what the actual referendum question put to the British electorate actually was:

 

"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

 

with the responses to the question to be (to be marked with a single (X)):

 

Remain a member of the European Union

Leave the European Union"

Since the leave campaign in general mostly argued the same, the government now feels obliged to do so in order to accommodate the spirit as well as the letter of the referendum result.

Good of you to bring up the spirit and letter of the referendum before I did as, having regard to the above referendum question, might I now take this opportunity to remind you that EEA/EFTA membership is not "membership of the European Union" and therefore, as 'soft Brexit', just as valid an outcome of the referendum 'mandate' as 'hard Brexit'.

 

So.

 

The (new) British government is now moving apace to implement a consultative-only outcome [letter of the law: consultative, not legislative], which it chooses unilaterally and freely to interpret significantly beyond the wording of the referendum outcome as 'hard Brexit', and arguably without parliamentary oversight if the Courts will let it get away with it.

 

Now, I may be mistaken, but I recall you strenuously arguing that improved democracy, with increased accountability for people in high office as a by-product of same, were core to your decision-making process?

 

Does what May is currently doing, seemingly of her own bat, correspond to that vision of democratic improvement of yours?

 

Are you not even a little bit perplexed by the apparent wilful disregard of the current government for checks and balances, here?

Edited October 3, 2016 by L00b