The consequence thread (Brexit)

[unbeliever]

It's not up to me to suggest anything. You say it is written in that Act. But exactly where?

 

I didn't say that. I said that the MPs knew this would happen in the event of a leave vote when they voted for the referendum.

[Flexo]

I didn't say that. I said that the MPs knew this would happen in the event of a leave vote when they voted for the referendum.

 

You did in post#4638, some 25 minutes ago:

 

The legislature has already given their approval for the executive to activate article 50 and begin negotiations. It was called the "European Union Referendum Act 2015".

 

Perhaps you thought you'd get away with a made-up claim because no-one would check it? (This is known as "The Boris strategy").

[unbeliever]

You did in post#4638, some 25 minutes ago.

 

Perhaps you thought you'd get away with a made-up claim because no-one would check it? (This is known as "The Boris strategy").

 

Nope:

Any new treaties with the EU will have to be approved by parliament. The repeal of the 1972 act will also pass through parliament.

The negotiations are handled by the executive who may consult the legislature as they see fit. The legislature has already given their approval for the executive to activate article 50 and begin negotiations. It was called the "European Union Referendum Act 2015".

I don't have a problem with how the current executive is handling matters so far. If parliament feel strongly about it, they can reject the PM and thereby the whole executive at the next confidence vote, or if 2/3 are in agreement they can call a general election as and when they please.

 

I said that they had given their approval by voting for the act in full understanding of what would happen in the event of a leave vote.

I did not say that this was included in the text of the act itself. That's not how UK legislation works.

[Berberis]

The FTSE100 goes up as it is comprised of multinational companies that make their money abroad but are traded in Sterling in London. Those holding £'s to invest find there are few worthwhile investments as their money is worth 26% less than last year.

 

That it in a nutshell.

 

Companies listed on the FTSE100 are mostly foreign businesses with assets and profits measured in US Dollars. Therefore when the British Pound drops against the US Dollar, these companies see their profits and the value of their assets increase.

[unbeliever]

That it in a nutshell.

 

Companies listed on the FTSE100 are mostly foreign businesses with assets and profits measured in US$. So when the British £ drops against the US $, these companies see their profits increase and the value of their assets increase.

 

Oh are we talking about stock exchanges again.

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-markets/stocks/indices/summary/summary-indices.html?index=MCX

I can cite no end of posts from remainers in june and july claiming that the FTSE250 was the real indicator of the state of the Uk economy.

Strangely I can't find any more recent ones. I wonder why.

Edited October 11, 2016 by unbeliever

[Flexo]

I said that they had given their approval by voting for the act in full understanding of what would happen in the event of a leave vote.

 

Parliament has full understanding of what would happen in the event of a leave vote?! That's news! Everyone else thinks they are making it up as they go along.

[unbeliever]

Parliament has full understanding of what would happen in the event of a leave vote?! That's news! Everyone else thinks they are making it up as they go along.

 

You doubt that they expected the executive to activate article 50?

During the referendum campaign the PM indicated that it would happen the next day!

[L00b]

Any new treaties with the EU will have to be approved by parliament. The repeal of the 1972 act will also pass through parliament.

That is true. But these consultations also happen to take place right at the end of the negotiation. Which may occur after the UK has exited the EU de facto (do please read that Economist link).

The negotiations are handled by the executive who may consult the legislature as they see fit. The legislature has already given their approval for the executive to activate article 50 and begin negotiations. It was called the "European Union Referendum Act 2015".

Utter b*ll*t*x.

 

The EURA 2015 did not give any further mandate to the executive, than to organise and run the referendum under a myriad conditions (specific timeframe, specific question, eligibility criteria for voting, etc.)

 

If you want to go all due process on me, first you're going to have to point out where does the EURA 2015 or, for that matter, any other piece of UK legislation, states that this referendum's outcome was binding upon the government or, for that matter, Parliament. I'll save you the trip: whilst you have at least an argument to debate on moral grounds in view of the voting outcome, legally none of it does. But don't take my word for it, by all means come to your own independent conclusions.

 

Next, I'd ask you to point out where does the EURA 2015 or, for that matter, any other piece of UK legislation, defers the entire responsibility for implementing the referendum's outcome to the government without any Parliamentary oversight. I'll save you trip: none of it does. Because of the above.

 

I could also ask about where does the EURA 2015 or, for that matter, any other piece of UK legislation, requires the government to implement a partisan form of Brexit to the exclusion of more consensual alternatives. Aka a hard Brexit rather than a soft one, to use terms now in common parlance. You're a scientist, right? Do you see a pattern yet?

 

So much for your legislative 'mandate'.

 

May is flying with this entirely by the seat of her own pants, and f any collateral damage. Well, I've got news for you: if you're not part of the fabled '1%', you're part of the collateral damage. Enjoy the ride, hope you got a 'chute

 

---------- Post added 11-10-2016 at 15:05 ----------

 

Oh are we talking about stock exchanges again.

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-markets/stocks/indices/summary/summary-indices.html?index=MCX

I can cite no end of posts from remainers in june and july claiming that the FTSE250 was the real indicator of the state of the Uk economy.

Strangely I can't find any more recent ones. I wonder why.

Obviously you missed mine from 5 days ago, which made the exact same point as Flexo and Berberis:

Then enlighten me and make the point clearer as stating "What that tells me is you don't understand what the share price is...." is not much to go on.

You could do worse than consider the currency it's valued in (here is a clue about the point)

Strangely (LOZ!), again not commented upon at the time, or since.

Today, the FTSE 100 Index closed at 6682, an increase of +9.7% from 1 January 2016.

 

Adjusted for the GBPUSD rate, the FTSE 100 closed today at 5886 (in dollar terms), a decrease of -5.7% on the start of the year.

Somebody wants to mention the FTSE again? Edited October 11, 2016 by L00b

[Santo]

That is true. But these consultations also happen to take place right at the end of the negotiation. Which may occur after the UK has exited the EU de facto (do please read that Economist link).

Utter b*ll*t*x.

 

The EURA 2015 did not give any further mandate to the executive, than to organise and run the referendum under a myriad conditions (specific timeframe, specific question, eligibility criteria for voting, etc.)

 

If you want to go all due process on me, first you're going to have to point out where does the EURA 2015 or, for that matter, any other piece of UK legislation, states that this referendum's outcome was binding upon the government or, for that matter, Parliament. I'll save you the trip: whilst you have at least an argument to debate on moral grounds in view of the voting outcome, legally none of it does. But don't take my word for it, by all means come to your own independent conclusions.

 

Next, I'd ask you to point out where does the EURA 2015 or, for that matter, any other piece of UK legislation, defers the entire responsibility for implementing the referendum's outcome to the government without any Parliamentary oversight. I'll save you trip: none of it does. Because of the above.

 

I could also ask about where does the EURA 2015 or, for that matter, any other piece of UK legislation, requires the government to implement a partisan form of Brexit to the exclusion of more consensual alternatives. Aka a hard Brexit rather than a soft one, to use terms now in common parlance. You're a scientist, right? Do you see a pattern yet?

 

So much for your legislative 'mandate'.

 

May is flying with this entirely by the seat of her own pants, and f any collateral damage. Well, I've got news for you: if you're not part of the fabled '1%', you're part of the collateral damage. Enjoy the ride, hope you got a 'chute

 

---------- Post added 11-10-2016 at 15:05 ----------

 

Obviously you missed mine from 5 days ago, which made the exact same point as Flexo and Berberis:

Strangely (LOZ!), again not commented upon at the time, or since.

Somebody wants to mention the FTSE again?

 

I agree with unbeliever. It's implicit that the government will have the power to enact article 50 following the referendum. Not legally obligated to but I think by voting in favour of having the referendum they also implied such consent.

 

Now some members of the govt. are arguing over the small print. Perhaps they ought to have voted against the referendum bill to begin with? Only the SNP did.

 

It's like parents letting the kids vote on whether they want to go to Disneyland, them saying yes and then daddy saying to mummy, I didn't say you were allowed to drive them so we aren't going!

Edited October 11, 2016 by Santo

[Flexo]

Oh dear, Loob's right.... I've looked at some charts of USD ETFs that track FTSE100.

 

The "record highs" in the FTSE are because of the record lows in the value of the £.

 

When shown in USD instead of GBP, the charts are flat and show an ongoing downtrend over several years.

 

FWIW, in USD, the FTSE250 also shows a strong downtrend starting mid 2015.