The consequence thread (Brexit)

[tinfoilhat]

You only have to look at some of the posts on here to know that many people expect to pay little or nothing for all sorts of goods and services. If you have a constant downward pressure on prices then one of the things you have to do is hold down labour costs. If people had a more realistic approach to the cost of things then maybe there wouldn't be the need to pay as little as possible.

 

There is anecdotal evidence that a proportion of the jobless population is simply not interested in working. Maybe some of this is to do with wages, but if a migrant is willing to work for a low wage then why won't a local?

 

It's well documented that there are skills shortages in all sorts of industries. The traditional apprenticeships all but disappeared in the 1980's and nothing really replaced them.

Perhaps they will come back if access to skilled migrants is restricted. Everyone in this country has the opportunity to have a reasonable education. If parents choose not to encourage their offspring to take advantage of that then it's not surprising that better educated migrants get jobs.

 

Easy access to migrant labour might have allowed society to ignore the problems of the lack of enthusiasm to work and learn in a section of the local jobless population but if (and its a big if) access to migrants is significantly restricted then the jobless population is going to be faced with incentives to work which make IDS's attempts in this direction look like a picnic.

 

Got it in one. Ross kemp did a show about immigrants coming over takin our jobs etc and more than once employers were asked why they employing so many foreigners - the British in the main didn't want to do the job. I defintately recall a banana packing factory who paying minimum wage (maybe a bit more? Can't remember) but how much should you get paid for putting bananas in a box? Ditto the hotel trade - I've a bit more experience of this - be neat, tidy and pleasant. The hotel I came across a fortnight back was not full of poles but young Spanish speakers. And very polite and efficient they were too. There boss was Spanish too. The jobs are there if Brits want low skilled work. They don't.

[Flexo]

Ditto the hotel trade - I've a bit more experience of this - be neat, tidy and pleasant. The hotel I came across a fortnight back was not full of poles but young Spanish speakers. And very polite and efficient they were too. There boss was Spanish too. The jobs are there if Brits want low skilled work. They don't.

 

Hotel work is excellent for young people on their travels, particularly because it often has low-cost accommodation included.

 

I spent a long summer travelling, working in a hotel to fund the travels.

 

A friend spent a couple of years doing that in Spain, where he met his future wife.

 

There is so much to be gained from travelling and spending time actually living in other countries rather than two weeks in some holiday resort.

 

Some EU MEPs are proposing that everyone be given an Interrail ticket at age about 18. I think it's a fantastic idea to give something to the young and encourage them to explore other places and, as a consequence, develop themselves. It's a welcome change to making life ever more expensive and harsh for them.

 

And here? Removal of the right to travel and work through 27 other countries. People who have never left Barnsley who are fearful of people from beyond.

 

"Are we still stuck on this fecking island?!" -- Father Jack

[monkey104]

Should Gibraltar be given to Spain?

 

Residents there make heavy use of their EU freedom of movement to travel between Spain and Gibraltar. Some families have members living in both and travel regularly to look after elderly and infirm family members.

 

We can expect Spain to reinstate border checks and have queues of many hours to cross the border.

Can Little England really expect to keep Gibraltar? Should Gibraltar, Scotland and Northern Ireland regain their freedom and take back control?

 

I was there 2 months ago and the Spanish side of the border is chaos due to border checks. Trying to get in and out is a nightmare.

Walking in and out or on a scooter is ok but by vehicle is awful.

[Santo]

I was there 2 months ago and the Spanish side of the border is chaos due to border checks. Trying to get in and out is a nightmare.

 

Is Gibralter, as a British territory, not in Schengen then?

 

Edit: I checked. It isn't. So Spain aren't reinstating border checks. They exist already.

 

---------- Post added 13-10-2016 at 14:09 ----------

 

Should Gibraltar be given to Spain?

 

Residents there make heavy use of their EU freedom of movement to travel between Spain and Gibraltar. Some families have members living in both and travel regularly to look after elderly and infirm family members.

 

We can expect Spain to reinstate border checks and have queues of many hours to cross the border.

 

Can Little England really expect to keep Gibraltar? Should Gibraltar, Scotland and Northern Ireland regain their freedom and take back control?

 

Freedom? You are not aware that most people in Northern Ireland consider themselves British or Northern Irish not Irish then?

Edited October 13, 2016 by Santo

[monkey104]

Is Gibralter, as a British territory, not in Schengen then?

 

Edit: I checked. It isn't. So Spain aren't reinstating border checks. They exist already.

 

---------- Post added 13-10-2016 at 14:09 ----------

 

 

Freedom? You are not aware that most people in Northern Ireland consider themselves British or Northern Irish not Irish then?

 

Yes............

[Flexo]

Wikipedia has a useful summary of the Gibraltar Brexit situation:

 

During the campaign leading up to the United Kingdom's national referendum on whether to leave the European Union (known as "Brexit") the Spanish government warned that if the UK chose to leave, Spain would push to reclaim control over Gibraltar "the very next day".[26]

 

The Chief Minister of Gibraltar Fabian Picardo warned the UK that if Brexit went ahead Spain could "pounce on us" also stating that "it is safer and more secure for Gibraltar to remain in the EU".[27]

 

On 23 June 2016 Gibraltar voted with the rest of the United Kingdom on whether the UK should remain in, or leave the European Union. Although the final decision saw the UK decide to leave, Gibraltar overwhelmingly voted to remain in the Union. There was a strong voter turnout of 82% resulting in 19322 votes to remain and only 872 to leave.[28]

 

The day after the result of the Brexit vote, Spain's acting Foreign Minister José Manuel García-Margallo, as promised, renewed calls for joint Spanish–British control of the peninsula. He labelled the British people's decision to leave the EU as "a complete change of outlook that opens up new possibilities on Gibraltar not seen for a very long time" speculating "the Spanish flag on the Rock is much closer than before".

[Santo]

Wikipedia has a useful summary of the Gibraltar Brexit situation:

 

During the campaign leading up to the United Kingdom's national referendum on whether to leave the European Union (known as "Brexit") the Spanish government warned that if the UK chose to leave, Spain would push to reclaim control over Gibraltar "the very next day".[26]

 

The Chief Minister of Gibraltar Fabian Picardo warned the UK that if Brexit went ahead Spain could "pounce on us" also stating that "it is safer and more secure for Gibraltar to remain in the EU".[27]

 

On 23 June 2016 Gibraltar voted with the rest of the United Kingdom on whether the UK should remain in, or leave the European Union. Although the final decision saw the UK decide to leave, Gibraltar overwhelmingly voted to remain in the Union. There was a strong voter turnout of 82% resulting in 19322 votes to remain and only 872 to leave.[28]

 

The day after the result of the Brexit vote, Spain's acting Foreign Minister José Manuel García-Margallo, as promised, renewed calls for joint Spanish–British control of the peninsula. He labelled the British people's decision to leave the EU as "a complete change of outlook that opens up new possibilities on Gibraltar not seen for a very long time" speculating "the Spanish flag on the Rock is much closer than before".

 

Well I suppose they can try and take it by force. But that would be an attack on a member of NATO.

 

Or they can ask the people of Gibralter if they want to be part of Spain and if they say yes (which they won't, but if) respect the request.

 

Can't see us handing it over.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Santo

[tinfoilhat]

Well I suppose they can try and take it by force. But that would be an attack on a member of NATO.

 

Or they can ask the people of Gibralter is they want to be part of Spain and if they say yes (which they won't, but if) respect the request.

 

Can't see us handing it over.

 

Maybe on the table for single market access? It sounds implausible but if we want single market access and immigration controls we'll have to give something somewhere.

[Santo]

Maybe on the table for single market access? It sounds implausible but if we want single market access and immigration controls we'll have to give something somewhere.

 

Sorry, I'm unsure what you mean? We should give Spain Gibralter for single market access and immigration control? What do we give the Germans, French, Poles etc?

[tinfoilhat]

Sorry, I'm unsure what you mean? We should give Spain Gibralter for single market access and immigration control? What do we give the Germans, French, Poles etc?

 

Jersey, east Lincolnshire and Hull.