L00b Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) Why are Brexiters scared of democracy all of a sudden?It's not so much democracy as due process, I think. Most Leavers don't appear to have the first understanding of how devolved powers work. Under what passes as the UK's constitution, "the whole of the UK" doesn't get to decide every question. Questions that affect Scotland, Wales and/or Northern Ireland can only be decided with the consent of their respective Parliaments/governments - which aren't bound by any whole-of-UK vote, and are only accountable to their own electorates, not to the UK electorate as a whole. When the Westminster Parliament was passing the EURA 2015 to hold the Brexit referendum, a provision could have included which said ". . . and the outcome of this referendum binds the Scottish Parliament/NI Assembly/Welsh Assembly". But it wasn't, so the EURA doesn't bind them, no more than it binds the Westminster Parliament. And if, as a matter of UK 'constitutional' law, their respective consent is required, then it is required (this is one aspect of the ongoing court case). The Brexit referendum wasn't expressed as, or presented as, a vote to amend the UK statutes to withdraw powers or competences from the Scots, Irish or Welsh parliaments and executives. Objectively, I think it's just political manoeuvring by Sturgeon. She knows May needs this extra pressure like a hole in the head, but I doubt she's ready to kill her career over it like Salmond did. Edited October 14, 2016 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Equato Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Why are Brexiters scared of democracy all of a sudden? Let Scotland hold another referendum then just ignore the result if they voted for independence, only be advisory wouldn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Smith Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) Can I ask you pro Brexiteers one simple question ? Let`s make some assumptions. Assume for a moment that the negotiations to leave the EU don`t go as well as the Leave lobby said they would. Also assume that the pound stays at a low level and prices go up, as will, and in fact, is, happening. Last (reasonable) assumption, because of the above polls started indicating that there is no longer a majority wanting to leave the EU. Would demands for a second referendum still be "undemocratic" ? And if so, why ? Remember this isn`t like a General Election where the public gets a chance to change its mind every 5 years. ---------- Post added 14-10-2016 at 11:28 ---------- Why are Brexiters scared of democracy all of a sudden? Exactly. How can an election (even a second referendum on Scottish Independence or the EU) be undemocratic ? Isn`t that a contradiction in terms ? Edited October 14, 2016 by Justin Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexo Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Why are Brexiters scared of democracy all of a sudden? The leave result was achieved on the back of lies and misinformation. A fantasy. Prolonging the fantasy is more important than exposing it to reality and scrutiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Let Scotland hold another referendum then just ignore the result if they voted for independence, only be advisory wouldn't it.Do you see the irony, when the government is not ignoring the Brexit referendum? There's nothing to stop Sturgeon running her second referendum and then, if (52% of ) the referendum vote goes to gain independence from the UK, to stand up in Parliament and declare Scotland sovereign and independent. May's only choice then, would be to either roll in the tanks or live with it. Why couldn't the Scots "take back control" if they wished? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Equato Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Do you see the irony, when the government is not ignoring the Brexit referendum? I love irony but it lies with the remainers, they want to ignore one referendum result, if that doesn't work promote another one (Far more destructive than leaving the EU) just because that will show you Brexiters...so there. : P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 I love irony but it lies with the remainers, they want to ignore one referendum result, if that doesn't work promote another one (Far more destructive than leaving the EU) just because that will show you Brexiters...so there. : PYou're just the gift that keeps on giving today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berberis Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 I love irony but it lies with the remainers, they want to ignore one referendum result, if that doesn't work promote another one (Far more destructive than leaving the EU) just because that will show you Brexiters...so there. : P The referendum was to leave the EU. Nothing more. It was not a referendum on immigration nor was it a referendum on the single market access. The fact remains, we can leave the EU but still have freedom of movement and there is nothing the Brexiters can do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Smith Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) Can I ask you pro Brexiteers one simple question ? Let`s make some assumptions. Assume for a moment that the negotiations to leave the EU don`t go as well as the Leave lobby said they would. Also assume that the pound stays at a low level and prices go up, as will, and in fact is, happening. Last (reasonable) assumption, because of the above polls started indicating that there is no longer a majority wanting to leave the EU. Would demands for a second referendum still be "undemocratic" ? And if so, why ? Remember this isn`t like a General Election where the public gets a chance to change its mind every 5 years. No Leavers answered this yet I see...... ---------- Post added 14-10-2016 at 15:06 ---------- Rebuilding Hadrians wall would be a border we could easily restore if Krankie and her SNP would rather be part of the EU than the UK. It would also be a boost to our economy with the construction jobs it would create . Its a win win for England. Pensitone999 : English and proud ! Does that extend to being happy to pay your English taxes ? And risking the necks of your fellow Englanders whilst driving too fast ? By the way, I`d be particularly interested to hear P999`s response to the above question, or will he file it in the "too difficult, best just ignore it" folder ? Edited October 14, 2016 by Justin Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apelike Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 The referendum was to leave the EU. Nothing more. It was not a referendum on immigration nor was it a referendum on the single market access. The referendum was to leave the EU and free movement, immigration and the free market was an integral part of being a member, so it was a vote about those as well. The fact remains, we can leave the EU but still have freedom of movement and there is nothing the Brexiters can do about it. The Brexiters don't need to do anything as they have already voted to leave. What happens now is that A50 will be triggered and its anybody's guess as to how that pans out or if free movement remains part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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