The consequence thread (Brexit)

[I1L2T3]

I think the EU in time will cease to exist the idea behide the EU was great keep the peace in Europe trading together using the Euro so much was promised. The reality was each member wanted to do things in their own way seldom was their any room for negotiation due to rules on this and that on trade or government policy that paved the way for parties like UKIP to gain popularity for us Brexit was the result which could lead to the EU breaking apart over time .

 

I think there is every chance it will get stronger, and especially so if the UK suffers badly after triggering article 50.

[Dardandec]

Sad really. I'd recommend Facebook or Twitter for you to post in and generalise.

 

So come on then, if we are going to have such a cosy life outside of the EU, educate me on how good its going to be. You go on fakebook and witter and get the ones who know, who aren't "generalized" to tell me, deal?

 

Whats sad is voting for something when you haven't got even the slightest idea what is going to happen.

[*_ash_*]

not sure about that, the weaker economies will suffer far worse that ours is should they vote to leave the EU plus any euro nation will have to return to it's own currency and that will bring an additional layer of pain.

 

Beautifully put andy. This is what I dislike like about the ideology.

 

In my view though, they [EU] took the power when they got these places into the Euro.

 

 

For me, luckily we stayed out the Euro. You rightly point out that others will suffer more because of this additional layer, hence the decision to leave by any of the 'big boys', will be start of the ultimate downfall.

 

-

 

I'm not arguing with you. I'm arguing with other members using bullyboy join the crowd tactics that many in here use.

 

I've been consistent with my views (whether right or wrong ones, they're mine)- I think it will collapse*, and thought and wrote as much before the vote, hence my hundreds of posts about it, and my eventual decision (at the last minute rather than spoil my vote in disgust at the remain campaign) was to vote in a way that I think in the long run will benefit this country best when it falls.

 

Maybe we should just read buses slogans, and watch youtube alternatives. That's what probably 80% of people base their vote on.

 

-

 

*for Justin, 'I think' doesn't mean 'I want'

[I1L2T3]

That depends what you mean by "accept the result". As I`ve said before I accept that on the 23rd of June 2016, after the most dishonest political campaign I can ever remember, Leave got marginally more votes than Remain. I do not accept that it would necessarily be the same result were the vote to be rerun in 6 months time, one years time, or 5 years time. The last time period being the most significant. We hold General Elections every 5 years, and we don`t say "that`s undemocratic, the public have no right to change their minds".......

 

To add a bit of perspective if I may, of the people who voted in the referendum if 600,000 had voted remain instead of leave there would have been a victory for remain. Out of the almost 34million who voted that is 1.7% of them.

 

That is not a massive swing really.

 

Do we have 600,000 leave voters regretting their decision? Maybe. Perhaps very likely. By New Year IMO that will seem like a stupid question such will be the realisation of what we are staring down the barrel of come March.

[andyofborg]

 

In my view though, they [EU] took the power when they got these places into the Euro.

 

 

it could be argued that they didn't take enough power, currency union without fiscal union was always going to be problematic.

 

also, of course, a number of countries which should never have been allowed to join were allowed in.

[*_ash_*]

 

Sorry for the breakdown in communication.

 

No probs Justin, ignore the * in my last post, as it's no longer relevant!

 

-

Dard,

 

Let's just do the simple thing here:

 

So come on then, if we are going to have such a cosy life outside of the EU, educate me on how good its going to be. You go on fakebook and witter and get the ones who know, who aren't "generalized" to tell me, deal?

 

Whats sad is voting for something when you haven't got even the slightest idea what is going to happen.

 

Strawman. I never said anything of the sort.

 

I actually wrote before the ref (which I thought would win remain) that if we left, it would be economically bad initially - so far so right. I also said if we remained it would collapse in 10 years. That view is now unimportant because we didn't vote to remain.

 

So come on then, if we are going to have such a cosy life outside of the EU, educate me on how good its going to be. You go on fakebook and witter and get the ones who know, who aren't "generalized" to tell me, deal?

 

Whats sad is voting for something when you haven't got even the slightest idea what is going to happen.

 

Also a strawman, but more like petty poor logic stuff similar to that you've posted so far at me.

 

If we voted remain how far in the future do you know what was going to happen and how good it would be? Share with me.

 

 

So come on then, if we are going to have such a cosy life outside of the EU, educate me on how good its going to be. You go on fakebook and witter and get the ones who know, who aren't "generalized" to tell me, deal?

 

Whats sad is voting for something when you haven't got even the slightest idea what is going to happen.

 

 

See above. How far into the future can you see?

 

-

 

Whats sad is voting for something when you haven't got even the slightest idea what is going to happen.

 

One last thing Dard. In my pre-referendum post, I questioned the EU considering its strength of 28 countries which had completely failed in the Syria crisis. It's still failing.

 

If the EU is so cosy (retort strawman) why has it absolutely ****ed up this crisis?

 

If you would like to answer this, then I'm all ears.

 

---------- Post added 16-10-2016 at 23:42 ----------

 

it could be argued that they didn't take enough power, currency union without fiscal union was always going to be problematic.

 

also, of course, a number of countries which should never have been allowed to join were allowed in.

 

Above: I also argued that andy. My main views though was this became an issue when the Eastern Block joined.

 

Bold: to me another example of a flaw in the main ideology.

[*_ash_*]

At time of writing, we're down about 6.2% against the US dollar over the last month. Let's compare this to some other currencies not tied to the US dollar.

 

Against the euro we're down by about 4.7%. Some other non-pegged currencies:

 

Australian dollar - 9.6%

NZ dollar (against which we're at all-time lows) - 5.5%

Swedish kronor - 4.3%

Polish zloty - 4.8%

 

 

At the time of writing pre-2306 (as it will be known), it's a shame no one on the pre-referendum debates discussed or predicted the NZD, kronor and zloty exchange rates against the Euro/£

 

... I think that might have swung it.

[apelike]

so it's all the remainers fault that the £ has plummeted against the $

 

Thanks for that

 

Nice strawman attempt there.

[unbeliever]

except self government is an illusion, any trade deal worth making will result in us sacrificing some degree of control since we have to commit to the binding decision of a tribunal in the event of a dispute.

 

if you really want control of our own destiny then you should be arguing for us to leave the un, nato, wto and renege on every international treaty commitment we have ever made.

 

This pretence that the EU is like any other international agreement or trade deal is preposterous. This fact is obvious to everybody and needs no further comment.

 

---------- Post added 17-10-2016 at 08:38 ----------

 

Not sure what point you're trying to make there.

 

unbeliever's argument is that it's "very misleading" to compare the pound to the US dollar (or currencies pegged to the dollar) without also looking at how it's doing against other currencies, the implication being that it's doing OK against other developed world currencies. My point is that it isn't.

 

He or she also argues that the US dollar has been doing unusually well in recent weeks. It's true that it has gained a few points against most other currencies (though not the Australian dollar), but nowhere near enough to justify the claim that the pound only looks weak if you compare it to the dollar.

 

I've been very careful in my wording. I do not say that the fall in the pound is an illusion, only that the dollar comparison greatly exaggerates it. I specifically quoted the comparison with the Euro which shows a substantial but much smaller drop on the value of Sterling.

I have made zero attempt to mislead anybody.

Edited October 17, 2016 by unbeliever

[unbeliever]

Really?

 

I'm getting a little fed up of being villified for daring not to agree. For not being a good sport and sucking it up and paying for all the pie in the sky stuff that people want. I'm getting sick of having my moved curtailed by such people and then having my patriotism attacked for daring to want to travel outside of the EU. As for my traitorous move to the EU itself I've got people not even talking to me any more because of that.

 

And all you are getting fed up with is people not beleiveing your strawman about when economic catastrophy would bite? Everyone I every heard talking about it made it clear that the real problems would be after Brexit so where they h*ll you get after the vote from I don't know.

 

Then theres the purile "remoaners" comment. I thought you were better than that. I actually used to care about your arguments but this?

 

You've no argument. You've nothing. You've no comeback at all and are resorting to the tactics of the usual bottom feeding forum scud that comes on here. I thought you were better than that. Hell I even defended you against people who accused you of that sort of thing.

 

No more. You've nothing left to say it seems of any value.

 

 

Read the Treasury report I linked to. My complaint is entirely justified. There were specific predictions of prompt (immediately after the vote) economic doom which have not been forthcoming and which my opponents on here refuse to admit were even made.

I've already apologised for the use of the term remoaners. It wasn't my intention to insult or offend anybody. I thought of the term as a playful shorthand, I stand corrected (3 times now).

Edited October 17, 2016 by unbeliever