andyofborg Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 This pretence that the EU is like any other international agreement or trade deal is preposterous. This fact is obvious to everybody and needs no further comment. i wasn't saying that it was, only that any trade deal results in some loss of this magic self determination you seem so obsessed with. the EU is far more than just a trade deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 i wasn't saying that it was, only that any trade deal results in some loss of this magic self determination you seem so obsessed with. the EU is far more than just a trade deal. Your argument is technically valid, but this is not a black and white matter. No other international agreement takes such enormous control of UK domestic law. ---------- Post added 17-10-2016 at 09:31 ---------- Well I wouldn't say that a 4.6% fall against the euro is "much smaller" than a 6.2% drop against the US dollar. The contrast depends on over what period you do the comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Read the Treasury report I linked to. My complaint is entirely justified. There were specific predictions of prompt (immediately after the vote) economic doom which have not been forthcoming and which my opponents on here refuse to admit were even made. I've already apologised for the use of the term remoaners. It wasn't my intention to insult or offend anybody. I thought of the term as a playful shorthand, I stand corrected (3 times now). Just as a matter of interest, we should be lets see about £3850 million pounds better off now according to the slogan on some side of a bus. That's great. It's almost 0.75% of the 500 odd BILLION a year that's been lost in out currency slide against the dollar! 500 billion a year. That's some real money now that's measurable but it's not really economic doom is it having a huge 20% hole in the accounts. I'd love to see what the Brexit coalition think is a real economic problem - perhaps going back to using the leaf as currency and living in caves or something would count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Just as a matter of interest, we should be lets see about £3850 million pounds better off now according to the slogan on some side of a bus. That's great. It's almost 0.75% of the 500 odd BILLION a year that's been lost in out currency slide against the dollar! 500 billion a year. That's some real money now that's measurable but it's not really economic doom is it having a huge 20% hole in the accounts. I'd love to see what the Brexit coalition think is a real economic problem - perhaps going back to using the leaf as currency and living in caves or something would count. I do not expect the currency slide to translate into a real loss. The fundamentals of the economy are good and it's still growing with very low unemployment. If it turns out I'm wrong, then I shall panic. Again. I'm genuinely sorry that the leave vote as had such negative effects for you personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkleyIan Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 To add a bit of perspective if I may, of the people who voted in the referendum if 600,000 had voted remain instead of leave there would have been a victory for remain. Out of the almost 34million who voted that is 1.7% of them. That is not a massive swing really. Do we have 600,000 leave voters regretting their decision? Maybe. Perhaps very likely. By New Year IMO that will seem like a stupid question such will be the realisation of what we are staring down the barrel of come March. There were many 16 / 17 year olds on June 23rd denied a chance to vote on their future who were overwhelming in favour of staying in . They will very soon all be 18+ year olds and there are around 1.5 million of them. Remember turnout of the under 25s was much higher than originally reported. I do wonder how the negations will carry on if we reach a point where its clear there is now a majority who favour staying in which could easily happen given the small swing required . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyofborg Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I do not expect the currency slide to translate into a real loss. a strange thing to say. the cost of imported goods has risen, anyone who purchases or uses imported goods is paying a higher price - that is a real loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I do not expect the currency slide to translate into a real loss. It's already a very real loss. 20% of the value of the entire country. Unless we were totally insular which is impossible it has a direct and immediate impact. This is economics 101 and it's deeply worrying that people are this ignorant of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 It's already a very real loss. 20% of the value of the entire country. Unless we were totally insular which is impossible it has a direct and immediate impact. This is economics 101 and it's deeply worrying that people are this ignorant of it. It would be quite wrong for me to portray this is nothing as there is real economic impact from loss of currency value. But neither is it correct to suggest that we've all just lost 20% of our wealth. The reality is somewhere in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 It's already a very real loss. 20% of the value of the entire country. Unless we were totally insular which is impossible it has a direct and immediate impact. This is economics 101 and it's deeply worrying that people are this ignorant of it. I got a "serves you right for buying stuff abroad" when I was talking to one chap I knew, or rather I thought I knew. A swift 15% rise in anything will hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I got a "serves you right for buying stuff abroad" when I was talking to one chap I knew, or rather I thought I knew. A swift 15% rise in anything will hurt. Because of course we make everything here - we are overflowing with camera factories and printed circuit boards. Semiconductor fab plants, and washing machine makers, we grow all our own food and brew all our drink, and get all of our crude from the North sea (which is also priced in sterling)..... etc.... etc....... People just don't appreciate how connected to trade we are, and why with our trade deficit why a 20% drop is a real big deal. ---------- Post added 17-10-2016 at 10:41 ---------- It would be quite wrong for me to portray this is nothing as there is real economic impact from loss of currency value. But neither is it correct to suggest that we've all just lost 20% of our wealth. The reality is somewhere in between. Go and try and buy - not from the current inventory that we have but try and buy from overseas ANYTHING from crude oil, electricity from Nederlands or France, iron ore from Sweden, semiconductors from Israel, tyre rubber from Malaysia, strawberries from Morocco, maize from the USA, and tell me that we've not just lost 20% of our wealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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