The consequence thread (Brexit)

[Justin Smith]

Not able. British citizens and passport holders, likely most affected by the vote outcome, denied the right to vote.

 

I posted a lot about this in the pre-referendum thread. Not many cared.

 

No different to EU migrants in the UK: now they're just pawns in the political Brexit game (Fox said so).

 

I wonder if they'll also eventually be classed as traitors in due course

 

That`s appalling. Supplementary question your honour, can we confirm that EU citizens living and working (and paying tax) in this country were also banned from voting ? If not that`s doubly appalling. British citizens abroad were not allowed to vote (even though they are allowed to vote in a General Election), and, at the same time, EU citizens here were also not allowed to vote. That`s having it both ways, why did the Government ever agree to that ? ! ? Quite apart from the fact it`s obviously unfair, did they have a death wish as regards losing the referendum ? Or were they so arrogant they thought winning would be a walk in the park so they could agree to anything the Brexiteers wanted....... I`m even more of the view we`ve, almost literally, sleepwalked into this one....... Cameron really has got a hell of a lot to answer for, Eton idiot.

 

---------- Post added 17-10-2016 at 22:35 ----------

 

Cows farts are pure methane and are to blame for the hole in the ozone

 

Penistone999 is English and proud of it. I`m English but rather less proud of it now, as are a significant number of others....... I wonder whether our fine upstanding tax paying English man from Penistone is happy about that ?

Edited October 17, 2016 by Justin Smith

[Phanerothyme]

I don't think it's a match between hard and soft brexit here - so much as fast and slow brexit.

 

Given the number of lawyers limbering up for their corporate and non-profit clients, I think we can safely say it's going to be a slow brexit.

 

Maybe even in our lifetimes.

[*_ash_*]

I don't think it's a match between hard and soft brexit here - so much as fast and slow brexit.

 

Given the number of lawyers limbering up for their corporate and non-profit clients, I think we can safely say it's going to be a slow brexit.

 

Maybe even in our lifetimes.

 

Spot on as always.

[L00b]

That`s appalling. Supplementary question your honour, can we confirm that EU citizens living and working (and paying tax) in this country were also banned from voting ? If not that`s doubly appalling. [/Quote]Nobody was 'banned' from voting.

 

Certain people just weren't invited to. UK expatriates over a certain time, EU citizens in the UK, under 18s. Commonwealth types could vote, though, IIRC.

 

Same difference in practice, but the semantic difference is important, I believe.

 

Same semantic issue as the EU won't be 'punishing' the UK.

 

The EU will just be wanting its own cake and eating as much as the UK does.

Edited October 17, 2016 by L00b

[tzijlstra]

Yes I thought it had nothing to do with it. Tzijlstra's reply confused me as they quoted your post about CAP, but then talked about CO2 emissions.

 

Apologies, had a longer post but decided to snip part and ended up with the confusion - Unbeliever is a chronic combatant of reducing CO2 targets in whatever way which is why I left that in as the anchor in retort to his CAP argument.

[Justin Smith]

Nobody was 'banned' from voting.

 

Certain people just weren't invited to. UK expatriates over a certain time, EU citizens in the UK, under 18s. Commonwealth types could vote, though, IIRC.

 

Same difference in practice, but the semantic difference is important, I believe.

 

Same semantic issue as the EU won't be 'punishing' the UK.

 

The EU will just be wanting its own cake and eating as much as the UK does.

 

I thought the franchise was more restrictive than in a General election ? If so, then saying people were banned from voting isn`t far off the mark !

[Obelix]

Once we actually leave, the power to set our own laws and policy. That's what sovereignty is.

 

But we have that at the moment.....?

 

So I don't understand what you think we've lost since you still haven't shown us how our sovereignty has been usurped.

[L00b]

I thought the franchise was more restrictive than in a General election ? If so, then saying people were banned from voting isn`t far off the mark !

I don't believe that it was.

 

EU citizens don't get to vote in GEs, neither do under-18s, nor foreign-based UK citizens (unless they are still recorded on a UK electoral list and bother to vote at home...or unless the UK has, like France, one or more "MP for expatriates" whom expatriates get to elect).

 

Don't get me wrong, you are correct morally/on the sentiment. Those most (and directly) affected at the coal face didn't get a say about it at all. But then there's the law, and the law is never about "what's just", it's only ever about "what's the rule".

[NERVY-OWL]

We were participating in a group which we had at least an proportional say in (probably greater than we should to be honest), by which we set laws as a group. It's sovereignty on a bigger scale. By leaving we will have no say in the laws that the EU passes, but may well be obliged to adhere to them anyway if we want to trade within the single market.

That's your sovereignty. You've given up proposing the laws, and having a vote on the laws, to simply HAVING to follow them or be frozen out of the trade block.

 

 

or by leaving we may prosper and trade with who we want while making our own laws, i don't believe we need to be told how to run our country. there are good points to the EU but there are bad aswell. i don't know how things will turn out by leaving but i'm sure most people that voted to leave were fully aware we may not be allowed to continue trading as we did with the EU.

either side will claim to know whats best but no one actually knows. it wasn't working being in the EU(thats my belief anyway) so it's all down to what deal we can work out with them.

my view is if we can't have full control over immigration then it's not worth staying in. i could be wrong but i'm willing to accept being wrong.

[Justin Smith]

or by leaving we may prosper and trade with who we want while making our own laws, i don't believe we need to be told how to run our country. there are good points to the EU but there are bad aswell. i don't know how things will turn out by leaving but i'm sure most people that voted to leave were fully aware we may not be allowed to continue trading as we did with the EU.

either side will claim to know whats best but no one actually knows. it wasn't working being in the EU(thats my belief anyway) so it's all down to what deal we can work out with them.

my view is if we can't have full control over immigration then it's not worth staying in. i could be wrong but i'm willing to accept being wrong.

 

The critical word here is the word most. I agree it`d be over 50%, it may even have been as high as 80%, but that`s a long way short of 96%. The latter figure is significant because the referendum was actually pretty close, it`d only have taken 4% of those who voted Leave to vote the other way and the result would have been different.