The consequence thread (Brexit)

[Berberis]

or by leaving we may prosper and trade with who we want while making our own laws, i don't believe we need to be told how to run our country. there are good points to the EU but there are bad aswell. i don't know how things will turn out by leaving but i'm sure most people that voted to leave were fully aware we may not be allowed to continue trading as we did with the EU.

either side will claim to know whats best but no one actually knows. it wasn't working being in the EU(thats my belief anyway) so it's all down to what deal we can work out with them.

my view is if we can't have full control over immigration then it's not worth staying in. i could be wrong but i'm willing to accept being wrong.

 

What negative impacts do you feel are apparent due to EU immigration?

[Justin Smith]

Originally Posted by Justin Smith View Post

I thought the franchise was more restrictive than in a General election ? If so, then saying people were banned from voting isn`t far off the mark !

 

I don't believe that it was.

 

EU citizens don't get to vote in GEs, neither do under-18s, nor foreign-based UK citizens (unless they are still recorded on a UK electoral list and bother to vote at home...or unless the UK has, like France, one or more "MP for expatriates" whom expatriates get to elect).

 

Don't get me wrong, you are correct morally/on the sentiment. Those most (and directly) affected at the coal face didn't get a say about it at all. But then there's the law, and the law is never about "what's just", it's only ever about "what's the rule".

 

Sorry, if the franchise was the same as for a GE that`s a breakdown in communication. It does raise an interesting point about voters rights though. If someone moves abroad and is then not allowed to vote in their home country, but also not allowed to vote in the country they then live in (and pay taxes in) how can that be considered fair ? What is it they said in the American war of Independence (against who was it, oh yes, us !) : "no taxation without representation !" I wonder what HMG would say if all the EU nationals stopped paying their taxes on that basis ! !

[unbeliever]

This directive right here specifies how we should go about reducing CO2. This is the crucial thing. It specifies how. I do not seek to challenge that we should reduce CO2. I merely object to the UK being told how to do it.

This is very simple. I have a problem with being dictated to on the how. Not the if. I've said this countless times already.

 

 

To suggest that the CAP is not part of and tightly bound with the EU is just false.

[Obelix]

What part of it are you objecting to then and why?

[Berberis]

How do Brexiters feel when they realise the drop in the UK currency means we have lost £700 billion worth of buying power or approx £10,000 per person since 23rd June? Is this a price worth paying to prevent those pesky europeans coming to the Uk and contributing to our economy?

[unbeliever]

What part of it are you objecting to then and why?

 

The intermittency of renewables dooms them to forever be an expensive minor player player in the energy game and biofuels are the worst idea ever devised on every possible level.

The matter of CO2 can and should be resolved through a combination of nuclear and CCS.

 

Even if I'm wrong about what policy should be, the EU has no business telling national governments.

What is it about a free trade system, internal market, or customs union which creates a need to centrally manage energy policy?

Edited October 18, 2016 by unbeliever

[L00b]

Sorry, if the franchise was the same as for a GE that`s a breakdown in communication. It does raise an interesting point about voters rights though. If someone moves abroad and is then not allowed to vote in their home country, but also not allowed to vote in the country they then live in (and pay taxes in) how can that be considered fair ? What is it they said in the American war of Independence (against who was it, oh yes, us !) : "no taxation without representation !" I wonder what HMG would say if all the EU nationals stopped paying their taxes on that basis ! !

EU citizens are allowed to vote in various elections in the UK. Council, MEP, PCC, possibly more.

 

So there is some representation to go with that taxation

 

HMG will begin to find out as soon as 2017 how much the rethoric by Leavers, Bojo, Fox, May, Rudd & Co. is costing the country in lost tax revenues.

 

But that income tax which will be lost from (departed-) EU tax payers will be a drop in the ocean. Because there's all the extra tax take from other direct and indirect taxation, to say nothing of the job multiplier effect (other jobs lost because EU citizen jobs gone). And though that all will make for a large drop, it still won't be much at all compared to the overall tax take lost from reduced consumption and economical activity. It will take a long time (months and years) for this to surface and be felt at street level.

How do Brexiters feel when they realise the drop in the UK currency means we have lost £700 billion worth of buying power or approx £10,000 per person since 23rd June? Is this a price worth paying to prevent those pesky europeans coming to the Uk and contributing to our economy?

I remember many Leavers arguing strenuously about the UK's ability to borrow and the bond market all playing in favour of the UK's exit.

 

Well, I have news for them.

Until this month, sterling was the asset that best reflected investors’ attitude towards the UK’s vote to leave the EU — acting as a market barometer for every new piece of economic data and ministerial pronouncement.

 

Now, however, that role is also being taken up by the debt market, pushing down prices for UK government bonds and raising the country’s cost of borrowing to levels not seen since the June referendum.

 

Amid rumours of a rift within the government between “hard Brexit” proponents and those more concerned about the potential economic damage of the EU split, the pound has continued on its path of volatile weakening, while gilt prices have plunged.

This is truly problematic, because May is a long time away from curbing the deficit...in fact she's on about borrowing tons more for shifting economical stimulus from QE to infrastructural investment.

Edited October 18, 2016 by L00b

[LeMaquis]

or by leaving we may prosper and trade with who we want......

 

We already have the right to trade with who we want to at the moment. Germany manages it fine. If we're not maximising our trade potential with markets outside the EU that's not because we're in the EU.

[apelike]

How do Brexiters feel when they realise the drop in the UK currency means we have lost £700 billion worth of buying power or approx £10,000 per person since 23rd June?

 

First, what do you mean by "we" and "buying power."

[tinfoilhat]

A noise from my BBC app tells me that inflation has gone up from 0.6 to 1.0%. Anybody want to claim that one?