Remembering the Somme

[L00b]

Could you (or someone) please explain what the cause was?

 

A lot of people say things like 'fighting for our freedom' and such, but I struggle to understand what it was all about. The whole thing sounds like a ridiculous political screw up fuelled by bureaucratic nonsense that escalated out of control and ended up killing millions for...... what?

I won't go into the big geopolitics of the time...but one of the worthier causes was freeing the Alsace-Moselle région of France, that had been annexed by Germany (then Prussia) in 1870, and formed an integral part of the IInd Reich between 1870 and 1918.

 

Most of the population in that area was staunchly French and opposed to the Annexation, and subjected to much criminal and civilian sanctions and discrimination by German administrators, for its entire duration. All the French language stripped of everything and everywhere, even towns and cities were rechristened into German equivalents, and French speaking and writing outlawed (education was wholly 'germanised' overnight, French kids had to learn from German teachers, in German - I still have my great grandfather's English school textbook, which is in German language, like 'for German kids' to learn English).

 

My great-great- and great-grandfather both enjoyed lengthy spells in the nick for flying the tricolour on the house front every 14 July prior to 1914 (after 1914 they'd have been shot against a wall). Relatives fled to the US in 1914 (or 1915) to avoid conscription into the German army and having to fight the Allies. Their staying-behind families paid for it (willingly) with sanctions.

 

So no, at least in that small respect, and though the human cost was a tragedy beyond words (and has continued to this day, for the local bomb disposal teams who still occasionally lose members when handling the "iron harvest") it wasn't "for nothing".

 

Then. As, for the little story, the Germans replayed the whole thing (annexation, forced conscription, criminal and civilian sanctions and discrimination against locals) between 1940 and 1944. With extra summary deportation for those deemed "too French" (of which my grandfather and his relatives at the time - that wasn't to camps, luckily, but to the southern 'Free French zone' half of France in 1940).

 

I drop poppies in Verdun every other year when we drive by.

Edited July 4, 2016 by L00b

[phil752]

Could you (or someone) please explain what the cause was?

 

A lot of people say things like 'fighting for our freedom' and such, but I struggle to understand what it was all about. The whole thing sounds like a ridiculous political screw up fuelled by bureaucratic nonsense that escalated out of control and ended up killing millions for...... what?

 

German back then was a superpower, and wanted to clip lands from their adjoining neighbors. They particularly need more resources such as coal.

 

Interesting Article http://nationalinterest.org/feature/germanys-superpower-quest-caused-world-war-i-10778

[Ridgewalk]

My Grandfather Christopher Smart survived the Somme and later served in Ypres to the end of the war. However he was diagnosed with what was then called shell shock, and committed to Middlewood Hospital until he died in 1938. He left at home a wife and 6 children, the eldest of whom was a girl, Lillian, 16 years old. When his wife died in 1916 he applied for compassionate leave to help his family and was denied, leaving Lillian and my mother,14 to take care of the younger ones. That probably became what sent him into shell shock as much as anything. All honour to your Grandfather. They were brave men and deserved much better than they were given. RIP to all of them.

 

 

 

Thanks for the kind and considerate words Buck. The effect on those left behind, families left without their father, husband, brother must have been devastating. My mother was 3 at the time and never knew her father, it's only recently I'm ashamed to say that I've been able to reflect on what that must have been like for her and her younger sister and mother

 

---------- Post added 06-07-2016 at 20:48 ----------

 

I won't go into the big geopolitics of the time...but one of the worthier causes was freeing the Alsace-Moselle région of France, that had been annexed by Germany (then Prussia) in 1870, and formed an integral part of the IInd Reich between 1870 and 1918.

 

Most of the population in that area was staunchly French and opposed to the Annexation, and subjected to much criminal and civilian sanctions and discrimination by German administrators, for its entire duration. All the French language stripped of everything and everywhere, even towns and cities were rechristened into German equivalents, and French speaking and writing outlawed (education was wholly 'germanised' overnight, French kids had to learn from German teachers, in German - I still have my great grandfather's English school textbook, which is in German language, like 'for German kids' to learn English).

 

My great-great- and great-grandfather both enjoyed lengthy spells in the nick for flying the tricolour on the house front every 14 July prior to 1914 (after 1914 they'd have been shot against a wall). Relatives fled to the US in 1914 (or 1915) to avoid conscription into the German army and having to fight the Allies. Their staying-behind families paid for it (willingly) with sanctions.

 

So no, at least in that small respect, and though the human cost was a tragedy beyond words (and has continued to this day, for the local bomb disposal teams who still occasionally lose members when handling the "iron harvest") it wasn't "for nothing".

 

Then. As, for the little story, the Germans replayed the whole thing (annexation, forced conscription, criminal and civilian sanctions and discrimination against locals) between 1940 and 1944. With extra summary deportation for those deemed "too French" (of which my grandfather and his relatives at the time - that wasn't to camps, luckily, but to the southern 'Free French zone' half of France in 1940).

 

I drop poppies in Verdun every other year when we drive by.

 

 

 

Hi loob

 

I'm in Reims at the moment and planning to visit Verdun over the next two weeks. I was in town today and the theme seems to be about German acknowledgement of historical wrongs and reconciliation between France and Germany. There is the Museum of May 7th where I believe Roosevelt accepted German surrender ( I may have that wrong), there is a school Le Lycée Roosevelt and references throughout the Champagne- Ardenne region to the tragic 20th century wars.

 

I was at the Somme 6 weeks ago for one week and that was overwhelming, cemeteries everywhere

 

I was also at Bayeux on June 6th this year

 

There is a lot affection for the United States and Americans in France.

 

I presume you are of French descent ?

[L00b]

I'm in Reims at the moment and planning to visit Verdun over the next two weeks.

Don't forget to swing by the Ossuaire, it is an absolute must. A place that will stay with you for the rest of your days.

 

If you take walks around the area, you might come across half-buried shells or munitions, or see 'little piles' of shells or munitions here and there, by the roadside, next to electric poles or road markers. Do not touch anything that looks remotely like a shell or munitions. All are rusted to within an inch of their life and extremely unstable: some are gas shells seeping their contents (they will kill by naked touch alone), and many would explode (with just as much potency as 100 years ago) just by looking at them "the wrong way".

 

Sounds obvious as a nose on a face, but people still win Darwin Awards for doing it. Every year

 

Tell any attendant about half-buried ones, the 'little piles' are known about and just waiting collection by the Bomb Disposal Team of the local Civil Defence on their next round (I briefly worked with them years ago, during my national service...some stories I've still not told my Mrs about, not sure I ever will Like the time the BDT Landy, loaded to the gills with unexploded ordnance in sandboxes, cantilevered and tilted on 2 wheels (front right, rear left) over 2 trench walls, then banged back down hard enough to pop a couple of sealed windows out - 20 yards in front of me! I had to check my trousers ).

There is a lot affection for the United States and Americans in France.

Contrary to popular belief, we do know what we owe, to whom. Including British and Canadians too.

 

People have particularly long memories in north eastern France. For the reasons I briefly recounted earlier.

I presume you are of French descent ?

I am French. It's common knowledge on here

 

Have a great time, Ridgewalk

Edited July 7, 2016 by L00b

[Ridgewalk]

Thanks for the reply Loob. As I indicated the mood here is about German acknowledgement of historic wrongs, as part of that, we're going on a 21 kilometre "Reconciliation walk" today around Hautville ( birthplace of Champagne).

 

Not sure if we'll get to Verdun now, we did intend to visit as part of our drive to Strasbourg, the next destination on our 3 month tour of France, but Reims to Strasbourg is 355 kilometres which surprised me a little and as we are not using autoroutes to get around ( much more enjoyable) we have to crack on.

 

I was hoping to visit the European Parliament in Strasbourg and emailed them months ago, not sure I have the heart for it now.

 

We're also a bit cemeteried out after one week in the Somme and another week around Bayeux.

 

---------- Post added 10-07-2016 at 05:28 ----------

 

As for the "obus" warning we were made aware of that near the Sheffield/Barnsley Pals memorial at Serre village, we actually saw one that a farmer had placed by a hedge, apparently it's quite common. They are then collected and then disposed of.

 

Cheers we're having a fabulous time in France. Also visited Trogues (Val de Loire) Versailles and 2 weeks in La Baule

[L00b]

Not sure if we'll get to Verdun now, we did intend to visit as part of our drive to Strasbourg, the next destination on our 3 month tour of France, but Reims to Strasbourg is 355 kilometres which surprised me a little and as we are not using autoroutes to get around ( much more enjoyable) we have to crack on.

 

I was hoping to visit the European Parliament in Strasbourg and emailed them months ago, not sure I have the heart for it now.

Ah, getting to close to my neck of the woods

 

Well, as and when you get to Strasbourg, you could do worse than the Batorama river cruise, that will take you around all the scenic buildings and areas (La Petite France -must see-, European parliament, ECJ <etc.>), with audio commentary. Very relaxing way of taking in the sights there, good value for money (IMHO).

 

If you're travelling by car (i.e. not motorhome) and are not stating over (i.e. in a hotel car park), best advice is to do the Park & Ride, it's cheap and you get a free day ticket for the tram. We always park to the La Rotonde one, close to the m'way and really easy to use.

 

Walk-wise, the area around the cathedral then onto La Petite France.

 

Food-wise, either L'Ancienne Douane (especially if it's good weather and they have room on the terrace) or take your pick around La Petite France. You won't find a bad one in Strasbourg anyway, it's the unknown food capital of France

 

Riquewihr to the south is really worth the (small amount of) miles. And if you have the time and ain't afraid of miles altogether, the Alsatian route du vin ("wine road") is a must-see. "Scenic" doesn't begin to do it justice.

 

I don't know where you'll be headed after, but if you're pushing south and are 'into cars', the Schlumpf collection in Mulhouse is also worth the miles.

 

As for the "obus" warning we were made aware of that near the Sheffield/Barnsley Pals memorial at Serre village, we actually saw one that a farmer had placed by a hedge, apparently it's quite common. They are then collected and then disposed of.

It is indeed quite common, the statistics would make your eyes water. You never really realise what a dry comment in a TV documentary, e.g. "the artillery barrage concentration during a 6 months period was 100 shells per square meter" really means, until you realise that, since 1945, they've been harvesting 5 metric tons (approx, average) of unexploded ordnance a year. And there's still no sign of it abating.

 

I did the collecting and disposal (non-gas only, at the live fire range in nearby Bitche) with them on a few occasions during my national service. The one time where they disposed of a few together with a 250kg WW2 US air bomb was a sight to behold. Find a big hole, put a big pile of old shells in it, put a r/c landmine on top, run away, press the button. Just like naughty kids with crackers

Edited July 11, 2016 by L00b

[Ridgewalk]

Many thanks Loob, actually we are staying in a city centre (almost) hotel for 3 nights. I would have preferred a bit longer but there you are. We will be setting off by car tomorrow, the earlier the better. Many thanks for your suggestions the River Tour and La Petite France sound great. I think the calendar may have thrown us a curve ball as Thursday is 14th Juillet, and a Bank Holiday, we may then have to get most things done on Wednesday 13th, because in my experience ( we have a second home in Carcassonne) everything shuts down. How would that effect River Trips and the like ? Would it be a good idea to use the 14th to walk around the city or maybe walk across the Bridge of Europe to Germany, presumably not a Bank Holiday there.

 

Sorry I'm taking advantage of your inside knowledge, we do have the Green Book guide to Alsace Lorraine so I'll scrutinise that

[L00b]

The River Tour is open all year round including Bank Holidays, so will be running on 14 July (I checked the site just now ).

 

Strasbourg hypercentre is heavily tourist-oriented, just like e.g. York here, so I doubt much of the tourist-oriented businesses (bars, restaurants, souvenir shops, etc) will be shut, but most outside the centre are likely to be shut indeed. Storks are the local emblem, as you'll see from tourist trinkets...and (populated this time of year-) nests on roofs aplenty.

 

Don't miss out on the fireworks on 14 July, Strasbourg is a large and wealthy city so they should be a sight to behold. EDIT: full programme here with addresses, there's going to be quite the party around. Ideal day to be there by the sounds

 

No need of any apology, it's a pleasure and an honour. Still not that many Brits visiting that neck of the French woods... I'm not sure if it's more of a blessing or a curse

Edited July 11, 2016 by L00b

[Ridgewalk]

Brilliant. Thanks for taking the time and providing the links. Not many Brits ? Not sure why as for me Northern France has some gems and much historical interest. Yesterday as I mentioned we completed a 21 k walk around Hautvilliers with hundreds of others through the vineyards stopping periodically for flutes of Champaign, I'd hardly touched the stuff before, we got a free glass at the end. A magazine journalist took several photos of us, we must be photogenic !

 

This morning we went to the Musée de la Rendition in Reims. This was in the Lycée Roosevelt and the place where Germany surrendered on 7th May at 3-41, am but the news wasn't to be made public until 15-00 hrs on the 8th May to allow as many German troops as possible to leave their bases and return to Germany. Fascinating at just 4 euros.

 

Many thanks again