Many dead in Bastille Day lorry "attack"

[Radan]

As idolaters means anyone who worships anyone other than allah then i think unbelievers more than covers it dont you.

 

But if they convert to islam and pay a tax then they can be forgiven!

 

Do you really grasp what you have quoted? It only goes to re-enforce the belief that islam wants to take over according to many quoran passages and be the only religion anyone can practice and woe betide anyone that doesnt tow the line.

 

If your post was in defence of islam then im afraid its had the opposite affect.

 

Of were you just trying to point score and belittle?

 

Someone who has read the Quran would know it says idolaters not unbelievers.

 

Idolatry is forbidden by Christianity and Judaism as well. It is the worship of idols. Christians and Jews aren't idolaters.

 

I quoted the middle bit of the full passage that had confused Runningman and the ending. In context and in full it will make more sense to you. Do read it.

 

I think my post has the desired effect. As does this one.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Radan

[runningman1]

Slay the remainers wherever you find them? I assume you are alluding to the passage in the Quran that says 'slay the unbelievers wherever you find them? Your other posts mentioning killing unbelievers suggests so.

 

Problem is RunningMan, it doesn't say 'unbelievers' in the Quran, it says idolaters. You claim to have read the Quran? How can you not know that? Idolatry is forbidden in ALL Abrahamic religions.

 

You asked about context before. If you had read the Quran you would know the context and recall the passage concludes:

 

'But if they repent and establish the prayer, and give Zakah, then leave them alone. Indeed, Allah is Ever Forgiving, Most Merciful'

 

Care to explain?

 

It absolutely does say unbelievers or disbelievers, depending on the translation it uses. The Arabic word is fitnah.

 

There are over 100 instructions to kill within the Qu'ran, a large number of them are open ended (as oposed to relating to a specific group of people at a specific time).

 

The Qu'ran does indeed call for mercy, especially if the unbelievers stop fighting. However it also says to kill them, so what is a good Muslim to do, kill people or show them mercy?

[Radan]

It absolutely does say unbelievers or disbelievers, depending on the translation it uses. The Arabic word is fitnah.

 

There are over 100 instructions to kill within the Qu'ran, a large number of them are open ended (as oposed to relating to a specific group of people at a specific time).

 

The Qu'ran does indeed call for mercy, especially if the unbelievers stop fighting. However it also says to kill them, so what is a good Muslim to do, kill people or show them mercy?

 

Wrong:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitna_(word)

 

In the passage 'kill the idolaters wherever you find them' the meaning is unambiguous as it refers to Meccan idolaters attacking Muslims.

 

I think you should read it again....

 

It is quite obvious you are relying on this website:

 

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx

 

Your use of a misquoted passage, 'open ended', fitna (though you read it wrong), and 'over a 100 examples of violence' is exactly the same.

 

Please don't confuse reading that website with reading the Quran in context. It destroys your credibility.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Radan

[runningman1]

Wrong:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitna_(word)

 

In the passage 'kill the idolaters wherever you find them' the meaning is unambiguous as it refers to Meccan idolaters attacking Muslims.

 

I think you should read it again....

 

It is quite obvious you are relying on this website:

 

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx

 

Your use of a misquoted passage, 'open ended', fitna (though you read it wrong), and 'over a 100 examples of violence' is exactly the same.

 

Please don't confuse reading that website with reading the Quran in context. It destroys your credibility.

 

I have not been reading any website and would be very careful using information from such a bias source.

 

Regarding open ended, the instructions to kill in the bible are generally closed instructions, ie telling Moses to kill the canaanites, whereas in the Qu'ran the instructions are directed towards Muslims in general.

 

These Mecan idolaters were there first. Muhammad starred a new religion and then attacked the current system in the land (hardly unusual throughout history).

 

Regarding the spelling of the word, it can be either as the link you provided suggests.

[Radan]

I have not been reading any website and would be very careful using information from such a bias source.

 

Regarding open ended, the instructions to kill in the bible are generally closed instructions, ie telling Moses to kill the canaanites, whereas in the Qu'ran the instructions are directed towards Muslims in general.

 

These Mecan idolaters were there first. Muhammad starred a new religion and then attacked the current system in the land (hardly unusual throughout history).

 

Regarding the spelling of the word, it can be either as the link you provided suggests.

 

You are wrong about the Meccans.

 

Fitna(h) doesn't mean unbeliever (i.e. infidel) as you claim. That would be kafir.

[runningman1]

Yes. But it doesn't mean unbeliever as you claim. That would be kafir.

 

Read into the word more, it can sometimes be used interchangeably with kafir. As I understand (but I am not claiming this time be 100% right) fitnah is the word used to describe the body of unbelievers (as it is more of a political identification) where as kafir is used to describe the individual. However, my understanding of Arabic is limited, perhaps one of our Arabic speaking friends can help?

 

How am I wrong about the Meccans? Are you saying that the Meccans weren't there before Muhammad or that they weren't being attacked by Muhammad?

[Radan]

Read into the word more, it can sometimes be used interchangeably with kafir. As I understand (but I am not claiming this time be 100% right) fitnah is the word used to describe the body of unbelievers (as it is more of a political identification) where as kafir is used to describe the individual. However, my understanding of Arabic is limited, perhaps one of our Arabic speaking friends can help?

 

How am I wrong about the Meccans? Are you saying that the Meccans weren't there before Muhammad or that they weren't being attacked by Muhammad?

 

Yes, you are wrong.

 

Read the Quran again. Or more likely, for the first time.

[runningman1]

Yes, you are wrong.

 

Read the Quran again. Or more likely, for the first time.

 

I have read it more than once my friend. It's actually really interesting.

 

However you seem to be dodging my question, what about the Meccans was wrong?

[Radan]

I have read it more than once my friend. It's actually really interesting.

 

However you seem to be dodging my question, what about the Meccans was wrong?

 

If you'd read it you'd know the passage 'kill the idolaters wherever you find them' relates to Meccans that had persecuted Muslims causing some to flea to Christian lands for safety and later the Prophet to Medina.

 

The thread is not about the the history of the faith. You grossly misquoted and ripped out of context part of the book. You got called on it. Let the thread return to topic.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Radan

[Zamo]

Are you and all other Brexiters willing to share some of the blame for the murder of Jo Cox MP?

 

Let me guess . . . No you're not.

 

But why not?

 

After all, Jo Cox MP was killed by a sick, twisted, xenophobic Brexiter.

 

Does this mean all Brexiters are sick, twisted, xenophobic killers?

 

By the low standards of Zamo and Penny, yes . . . yes it does.

 

Wave a magic wand and make Brexit disappear... will the racist haters disappear with it? No.

 

Wave a magic wand and make Islam disappear... will all the Islamic terrorism disappear with it? Yes.

 

That's the difference. The later (Islam) is a driver for the evil and the former isn't. It is politically correct denial to ignore the indisputable link between Islam and intolerant Islamic extremism. And all those who perpetuate a religion that oozes extremism are also perpetuating the extremism. Fact.