Many dead in Bastille Day lorry "attack"

[runningman1]

You're stereotyping Christians as much as you are Muslims.

 

The fact is a common tenet of Abrahamic religions is the forbidding of life taking, particularly in the Christian embodiment of it, remember the Sixth Commandment?

 

Here's a shock/horror revelation:

 

Christians lie

Jews lie

Muslims lie

Mankind lies

 

Islam does not expressly forbid killing people.

Edited July 17, 2016 by runningman1

[Penistone999]

All religions brainwash people who are stupid enough to follow them.

 

Islam tells women to wear Balaclava`s in public

Christianity tells followers sex before marriage is wrong

Catholicism tells people abortion is wrong and evil

 

And so it goes on and on .

 

All religions are nothing more than Cults who try and brainwash anyone who will listen to them.

[Branyy]

I see where this discussion is going so I will post a summary:

 

"Sunni: Shia are not true Muslim

Shia: Sunni are not true Muslim.

Sunni & Shia : Ahmadi are not true Muslim.

Sunni & Shia: Suffis are not true Muslim.

Salafist Sunni : Every Muslim should be a terrorist.

Sunni Jihadi : Shia Jihadi are not true Jihadi.

Shia Jihadi : Sunni Jihadi is not a true Jihadi.

Moderate Muslim: Jihadis are not true Muslim.

Jihadis: Moderate Muslim are not true Muslim.

 

Conclusion: No Muslim is a true Muslim, and no Muslim represents real Islam, and every Muslim thinks himself the true Muslim while the other is not. And finally what the real Islam is? Nobody knows.

But when you say something negative about Islam, All kind of "muslims" will tell you how dare you criticize the faith of 1.6 billion Muslim? ...

They suddenly become 1.6 billion Muslim?

I wonder how many of those 1.6 billion are considered "True Muslim"?"

[boyfriday]

Islam does not expressly forbid killing people.

 

I didn't suggest it did, in fact I suggested the opposite, however given that killing IS expressively forbidden in Christianity, some Christians make a damn good fist of it.

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2016 at 19:06 ----------

 

I see where this discussion is going so I will post a summary:

 

"Sunni: Shia are not true Muslim

Shia: Sunni are not true Muslim.

Sunni & Shia : Ahmadi are not true Muslim.

Sunni & Shia: Suffis are not true Muslim.

Salafist Sunni : Every Muslim should be a terrorist.

Sunni Jihadi : Shia Jihadi are not true Jihadi.

Shia Jihadi : Sunni Jihadi is not a true Jihadi.

Moderate Muslim: Jihadis are not true Muslim.

Jihadis: Moderate Muslim are not true Muslim.

 

Conclusion: No Muslim is a true Muslim, and no Muslim represents real Islam, and every Muslim thinks himself the true Muslim while the other is not. And finally what the real Islam is? Nobody knows.

But when you say something negative about Islam, All kind of "muslims" will tell you how dare you criticize the faith of 1.6 billion Muslim? ...

They suddenly become 1.6 billion Muslim?

I wonder how many of those 1.6 billion are considered "True Muslim"?"

 

Couldn't the same be said of all religions?

[runningman1]

I didn't suggest it did, in fact I suggested the opposite, however given that killing IS expressively forbidden in Christianity, some Christians make a damn good fist of it.

 

Sorry pal, but you did suggest exactly that

 

 

The fact is a common tenet of Abrahamic religions is the forbidding of life taking, particularly in the Christian embodiment of it, remember the Sixth Commandment?

[Branyy]

Couldn't the same be said of all religions?

 

Yes. But this particular religion was related to the original topic.

[boyfriday]

Yes. But this particular religion was related to the original topic.

 

However it's not useful pointing out the uniquely negative features of one doctrine when they're not in fact unique or failing to tackle the salient point which is why someone thinks it's ok to drive a wagon indiscriminately through a street full of people-I suspect a slavish dedication to the text of the Quran has little to do with it.

 

If we're to believe that such suicidal acts are to eradicate 'infidels/unbelievers', what do you think the justification is for someone to run over the children of his kith?

 

Those 72 virgins he's apparently been promised will be waiting with red hot pokers.

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2016 at 19:51 ----------

 

Sorry pal, but you did suggest exactly that

 

"particularly in the Christian embodiment of it"? Implying in other religions there is a get out, I think in Islam it's permissible to kill someone if it serves 'justice' ie the death penalty or a 'just war'.

[Zamo]

The failings of the human character are well reported over the centuries, however to regard the challenge of those failings as a futile exercise would still have children being shoved up chimneys, women (and men without property) unable to vote and homosexuality considered an act of criminality.

 

What innate human character has been conquered by social developments? And how do you explain it failing to stop the division and conflict in the Balkans (where they had also stopped pushing children up chimneys)?

 

Societies and attitudes change (some a lot more than others) but the human animal still lurks beneath. When push comes to shove, most will fight, most will kill and most will pick a side... as they did in the Balkans, as people have done throughout history and as they are doing around the world today.

 

The indisputable reality is that Islam is deeply troubled and drives people to hold intolerant views and commit intolerable acts. The fact that not all Muslims are affected is irrelevant. Intolerant views and intolerable acts ooze from Muslim communities and intolerable acts will not be tolerated indefinitely. It is like a lump that when benign will be left alone but when it's cancerous and dangerous people will want to cut it out. We're not at the cutting out point yet but that's the path we are heading down and every Islamic attack pushes us closer to division and rejection. Hands of friendship will not stop it... only an end to the extremism will.

[boyfriday]

What innate human character has been conquered by social developments? And how do you explain it failing to stop the division and conflict in the Balkans (where they had also stopped pushing children up chimneys)?

 

Societies and attitudes change (some a lot more than others) but the human animal still lurks beneath. When push comes to shove, most will fight, most will kill and most will pick a side... as they did in the Balkans, as people have done throughout history and as they are doing around the world today.

 

Hi Zamo, I remember listening to Rony Robinson interviewing a bright spark about social development. He was advocating that there should be no laws, and basically humanity will find it's own way of moderating the excesses in behaviour.

 

I guess what happens when the legal boundaries which keep us in check are suddenly taken away we return to type, so in that respect youre right, we will defer to the lowest denominator as they do in war zones (have you read about the My Lai massacre?), but I guess Rony's interviewee was suggesting there comes a point where communities have enough of looking over their collective shoulder at possible threats and put in place a framework for acceptable behaviour.

The indisputable reality is that Islam is deeply troubled and drives people to hold intolerant views and commit intolerable acts. The fact that not all Muslims are affected is irrelevant. Intolerant views and intolerable acts ooze from Muslim communities and intolerable acts will not be tolerated indefinitely. It is like a lump that when benign will be left alone but when it's cancerous and dangerous people will want to cut it out. We're not at the cutting out point yet but that's the path we are heading down and every Islamic attack pushes us closer to division and rejection. Hands of friendship will not stop it... only an end to the extremism will.

 

The indisputable truth is that wherever religion takes a hold in societies stricken by poverty, and imposes mediaeval boundaries that brutality will inevitably follow. Have you noticed that in permissive societies the extreme manifestations of (INSERT ANY RELIGION HERE) are relatively fewer in number?

 

I disagree with your belief that increasing numbers of Islamic attacks pushes us towards division and rejection, it may in the short term but it also exposes the good in people too, both Muslims and non Muslims.

 

There's nothing more compelling for the potential Islamophobe/moderate Muslim to question than the death of Muslim children, carried out supposedly by devout Muslims..that seems as incongruent to me as it would anyone else and endorses my belief that these terrorists are not seeking to further the Muslim cause or have any interest in their fellow man.

[Baz1]

All religions brainwash people who are stupid enough to follow them.

 

Islam tells women to wear Balaclava`s in public

Christianity tells followers sex before marriage is wrong

Catholicism tells people abortion is wrong and evil

 

And so it goes on and on .

 

All religions are nothing more than Cults who try and brainwash anyone who will listen to them.

 

So where's your evidence for that- that ALL religions brainwash people.

 

That's just an outdated atheist cliché and not even based on anything objective.

 

Look at this good article in the Independent which gives a proper insight in to the question of Islam and the West.

 

It highlights the key factors of Islam and how it truly meets the democratic and justice view. Only that what you and few others see are leaders controlling their people and not allowing Islam in its pure form.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the-truth-about-whether-islamic-values-are-compatible-with-western-values-a7141381.html

 

There is a link in there to a verse Harvard Law school has put in its faculty which it upholds to be a verse that talks of TRUE JUSTICE- that is what Islam is.

 

https://www.cair.com/press-center/american-muslim-news/12359-harvard-recognizes-quranic-%20verse-as-one-of-the-greatest-expressions-of-justice.html

Edited July 18, 2016 by Baz1