Many dead in Bastille Day lorry "attack"

[yellowperil]

A proper insight you say.

Well taking it at face value it may look that way but try digging a little deeper and it might not be quite as unbiased as it seems.

 

The bloke who wrote that article is called Atif Rashid, a quick scan of his twitter reveals him say this

"non Muslims were given freedoms and protection for jizya which was a tax less than Muslims had to pay"

 

Well thats hardly true is it, i suggest anyone who thinks the article is a shining example of how tolerant islam is to look at what the jizya really is and how it was enforced and collected before believing anything Atif Rashid says.

 

As for the quoran quote,i think firstly it was included more in an effort to show diversity as seems to be par for the course these days rather than being held up as an example of true justice as claimed.

Secondly if you examine the quote itsself :- "O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well- acquainted with all that ye do."

Oh ye who believe? No mention of non believers then? Maybe because being a non believer isnt an option, you either have to convert or pay the price (see the jizya mentioned above) And it mentions justice! Which justice would that be then i wonder.

 

Its not as "independant" as you are led to believe.

[Jukes]

My point, dear Jukes, was that religion does not play a role in barbaric acts. If you re-read the post you quoted, you will see that. It takes barbaric minds to encourage these acts, whatever the excuse, be it nazis, communists or jihadists.

 

Tim x

 

You are sadly and dangerously misguided dear Tim and you only need to ask an Islamic terrorist or soldier what motivates them and gives them holy permission and automatic absolution for their crimes for you to be corrected. They are not extremely barbaric, they are extremely religious.

 

Jukes x

[Futures Red]

You are sadly and dangerously misguided dear Tim and you only need to ask an Islamic terrorist or soldier what motivates them and gives them holy permission and automatic absolution for their crimes for you to be corrected. They are not extremely barbaric, they are extremely religious.

 

Jukes x

 

If I went round to your area and started shooting people. And later I said I did it because my god told me too, does this make me religious?

 

Lets not forget... each terrorist/person has their own ideology... hence why it's complex.

[Jukes]

If I went round to your area and started shooting people. And later I said I did it because my god told me too, does this make me religious?

 

Yes it does make you religious and your reason for killing people is your god. When enough people use the same reason you have to listen to what they are saying and start believing their sincerity.

 

Jukes x

[Futures Red]

Yes it does make you religious and your reason for killing people is your god. When enough people use the same reason you have to listen to what they are saying and start believing their sincerity.

 

Jukes x

 

Ok, even if it's based on a persons single ideology?

 

This is the problem, it's very complex and according to most, a very grey area.

[Jukes]

You're stereotyping Christians as much as you are Muslims.

 

The fact is a common tenet of Abrahamic religions is the forbidding of life taking, particularly in the Christian embodiment of it, remember the Sixth Commandment?

 

The difference is that millions of Christians aren't advocating murder, violence and oppression. Even if you don't have the direct experience there are lots of credible surveys and research which will tell you how adherents of Islam think all over the world and you will be able to find them for yourself if you are interested.

 

I believe that Islam is going to implode in a really horrible way if it does not reform very soon. I also believe that reform should be encouraged instead of making excuses for continuing uncivilised practices from a thousand years ago. I also believe that there are millions of Muslims who can convert Islam reform into a religion that can have a place in the modern world. Finally I believe that genuine nice people like you and others should stop making excuses for Islam and help it to reform quickly and peacefully instead of upholding false ideas about what is and isn't forbidden.

 

Jukes x

 

---------- Post added 26-07-2016 at 15:14 ----------

 

Ok, even if it's based on a persons single ideology?

 

This is the problem, it's very complex and according to most, a very grey area.

 

It isn't complex, or a grey area, or one person's single ideology because it is written in the holy book as an instruction to the faithful and some of the faithful are carrying out the instructions to the letter with the holy promise of a shortcut to heaven as a reward.

 

Jukes x

[Futures Red]

The difference is that millions of Christians aren't advocating murder, violence and oppression. Even if you don't have the direct experience there are lots of credible surveys and research which will tell you how adherents of Islam think all over the world and you will be able to find them for yourself if you are interested.

 

I believe that Islam is going to implode in a really horrible way if it does not reform very soon. I also believe that reform should be encouraged instead of making excuses for continuing uncivilised practices from a thousand years ago. I also believe that there are millions of Muslims who can convert Islam reform into a religion that can have a place in the modern world. Finally I believe that genuine nice people like you and others should stop making excuses for Islam and help it to reform quickly and peacefully instead of upholding false ideas about what is and isn't forbidden.

 

Jukes x

 

So basically are you saying it's religion, but good and bad religion?

[Jukes]

So basically are you saying it's religion, but good and bad religion?

 

I am saying that Islam today is a bad religion that can be reformed into a good religion but only Muslims can do it.

 

Jukes x

[Zamo]

So where's your evidence for that- that ALL religions brainwash people.

 

That's just an outdated atheist cliché and not even based on anything objective.

 

Look at this good article in the Independent which gives a proper insight in to the question of Islam and the West.

 

It highlights the key factors of Islam and how it truly meets the democratic and justice view. Only that what you and few others see are leaders controlling their people and not allowing Islam in its pure form.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the-truth-about-whether-islamic-values-are-compatible-with-western-values-a7141381.html

 

There is a link in there to a verse Harvard Law school has put in its faculty which it upholds to be a verse that talks of TRUE JUSTICE- that is what Islam is.

 

https://www.cair.com/press-center/american-muslim-news/12359-harvard-recognizes-quranic-%20verse-as-one-of-the-greatest-expressions-of-justice.html

 

Can you expand on this by telling us what 'true justice' will be bestowed on non-believers and homosexuals by your god after our death? Also, what does Islam say is the punishment for apostasy?

 

Is it not true that those guilty of these 'offences' will suffer eternal damnation in the fires of hell? How can this not be at odds with Western values where sexual orientation and religious choice are 'protected characteristics' under our laws?