Many dead in Bastille Day lorry "attack"

[tzijlstra]

Yes you do. What exactly in that says I blame (or want to blame) all Muslims for the actions of a few?

 

That post gives evidence to the claim that Islamic terrorism is more routed within Islamic doctrine than the murder of that MP was routed in Brexit doctrine.

 

No, that post is a ranting generalisation against muslims, all muslims. You seem to be unable to distinguish between the terrorist pigs that call themselves Isis and the good, hardworking, honest people that condemn them as much as anybody else.

[melthebell]

Yes you do. What exactly in that says I blame (or want to blame) all Muslims for the actions of a few?

 

That post gives evidence to the claim that Islamic terrorism is more routed within Islamic doctrine than the murder of that MP was routed in Brexit doctrine.

i think what he means is when you type muslim or islam, surely that refers to the religion and its people as a whole, rather than just the perpetrators

[runningman1]

No, that post is a ranting generalisation against muslims, all muslims. You seem to be unable to distinguish between the terrorist pigs that call themselves Isis and the good, hardworking, honest people that condemn them as much as anybody else.

 

 

No it isn't, where to I condemn any Muslims?

 

I mention the fact that the Qu'ran supports terrorist actions (as do the Haddith) and that Muhammed wasn't exactly the nicest guy in the world. These things are true.

[ukdobby]

I can't believe what I've just read,if driving a truck into innocent kids and adults is fighting back I hope no one else ever fights back.

[runningman1]

i think what he means is when you type muslim or islam, surely that refers to the religion and its people as a whole, rather than just the perpetrators

 

I talked about Islam because the scriptures absolutely do tell followers to kill non believers, this is undeniable.

 

Should we ignore this when discussing the motivation of Islamic terrorists?

 

---------- Post added 16-07-2016 at 13:32 ----------

 

I can't believe what I've just read,if driving a truck into innocent kids and adults is fighting back I hope no one else ever fights back.

 

Is it any worse than dropping bombs on innocent kids and adults?

[melthebell]

I can't believe what I've just read,if driving a truck into innocent kids and adults is fighting back I hope no one else ever fights back.

 

fighting back? whered you read that, apart from a very spurious isis message?

 

it was an atrocity carried out by a violent petty criminal who accoriding to his neighbours was a bit strange and a bit of a loner and not very pious in his religion

[tzijlstra]

No it isn't, where to I condemn any Muslims?

 

I mention the fact that the Qu'ran supports terrorist actions (as do the Haddith) and that Muhammed wasn't exactly the nicest guy in the world. These things are true.

 

And how is what you said not relevant to all muslims? Pointing at the quran as the source for all this evil is exactly what these terrorists do. Why are you copying that behaviour? What good does it do? What about the enormously vast majority of muslims who don't agree with terrorism? Can you really not see that your comments are pure incitement to make ever more jump across to the dark side?

[runningman1]

And how is what you said not relevant to all muslims? Pointing at the quran as the source for all this evil is exactly what these terrorists do. Why are you copying that behaviour? What good does it do? What about the enormously vast majority of muslims who don't agree with terrorism? Can you really not see that your comments are pure incitement to make ever more jump across to the dark side?

 

Do you really thing any of our discussions on this forum do any good? This is a local forum, you are misguided misguided if you think it will change the world.

 

Anyone who has read the Quran knows that the terrorists have cast iron authority to do what they do. It isn't even subtle.

 

Is your suggestion to pretend this isn't true?

 

However, you have once again lied about what I am saying. I would ask you politely to stop. It is nasty and undermines your credibility (you seem to be a good guy). I have never said that the Qu'ran is the root of all of this evil. I have clearly stated many times that Islam is just one aspect of the problem, another massive one being us and our society. The treatment the Muslim world gets and the hands of the west us disgusting, I fear that history will judge us poorly.

 

By suggesting things like this, I have received threatening PMs calling me a "Muslim lover".

 

I guess by your comments that you have never read the Qu'ran. I urge you to do so, it can be done in a weekend easily. Then you may perhaps understand what I am saying and realise that it is true.

[tzijlstra]

Do you really thing any of our discussions on this forum do any good? This is a local forum, you are misguided misguided if you think it will change the world.

 

Anyone who has read the Quran knows that the terrorists have cast iron authority to do what they do. It isn't even subtle.

 

Is your suggestion to pretend this isn't true?

 

However, you have once again lied about what I am saying. I would ask you politely to stop. It is nasty and undermines your credibility (you seem to be a good guy). I have never said that the Qu'ran is the root of all of this evil. I have clearly stated many times that Islam is just one aspect of the problem, another massive one being us and our society. The treatment the Muslim world gets and the hands of the west us disgusting, I fear that history will judge us poorly.

 

By suggesting things like this, I have received threatening PMs calling me a "Muslim lover".

 

I guess by your comments that you have never read the Qu'ran. I urge you to do so, it can be done in a weekend easily. Then you may perhaps understand what I am saying and realise that it is true.

 

I have read it, twice, in Dutch and in English. I have also read the bible on numerous occasions, after years of being indoctrinated that I would end up in purgatory for misbehaving as a boy and hell for committing sin. I was also taught that Jonah didn't really sit in the belly of a whale, just as many, if not most, muslims are taught that it is wrong to kill in the name of anything, including the quran.

 

The terrorists have no authority to do anything, the majority of the muslim population on this planet hates them just as much, if not more, as you and I do. But here is the key runningman - why do good, honest people in this country, in the Netherlands, Belgium, France feel they have to question whether they shouldn't commit such an act? Can you not see that it might be because people around them talk about their faith in the same terms as you did earlier?

 

if anybody should apologise, it is you, and not to me, but to the good muslims in this country. If we want to stop these hideous crimes from occurring we need dialogue, on the basis of equality and respect. Not on the basis of condemnation of their literature and beliefs.

[runningman1]

The terrorists have no authority to do anything, the majority of the muslim population on this planet hates them just as much, if not more, as you and I do. But here is the key runningman - why do good, honest people in this country, in the Netherlands, Belgium, France feel they have to question whether they shouldn't commit such an act? Can you not see that it might be because people around them talk about their faith in the same terms as you did earlier?

 

if anybody should apologise, it is you, and not to me, but to the good muslims in this country. If we want to stop these hideous crimes from occurring we need dialogue, on the basis of equality and respect. Not on the basis of condemnation of their literature and beliefs.

 

 

We do indeed need dialogue, a full and effective dialogue. That needs to include the contents of the Qu'ran and the role of Muhammed as a role model. It also needs to include a discussion on pan western foreign policy, the state of care for mentally ill people in supposedly developed countries and many, many other things.

 

You still haven't answered me. Should we pretend that the implicit orders to murder non believers don't occur? Should we just pretend Muhammed was a top bloke who every should aspire to be?

 

I understand your point about keeping it quiet because then the vast majority of Muslims will think that violence is unislamic, but that can't be the ultimate answer. "Let's just hope none of them actually read the Qu'ran" can't be the answer.

 

Oh and it is very nice to talk to another person whom has read both the Qu'ran and the Bible, people like us are very rare outside of theology scholary circles.