Are Summer Riots to become an anual event in the UK?

[Obelix]

we will have to agree to disagree as to whether turning up in riot gear was the right response to a water fight. I don't disagree a police presence is required, especially as there are nutters driving into large crowds around Europe right now.

 

the sun reports cops in riot gear at 3pm. I already sent that link. look at pics online as well, you can see them there ready in broad daylight.

 

the guardian reports violence flared at 8:40. the sun 9pm.

 

you can't argue: riot police were there early, for a water fight.

 

IT's a water fight involving 2000 people. I can't see how else the police would be expected to respond to something that could start large scale civil disorder.

 

---------- Post added 21-07-2016 at 01:02 ----------

 

Water cannons would have been more appropriate

 

Boris gone to Germany to borrow three has he?

[Radan]

The chances of nothing happening if they hadnt turned up are absolutely zero.

 

That's not what Dan said though is it? He said maybe if the police weren't heavy handed nothing would have happened.

 

Your straw man just blew away!

[yellowperil]

He actually said "if" so was unsure himself i assume.

I dont think they did in my opinion, i think a much bigger problem was prevented.

 

Given the riots in london a few years ago and the recent black lives matter demonstations im sure the police are aware of which tactic of policing works best and i very much doubt heavy handed was the way they went about it.

[Radan]

IT's a water fight involving 2000 people. I can't see how else the police would be expected to respond to something that could start large scale civil disorder.

 

---------- Post added 21-07-2016 at 01:02 ----------

 

 

Boris gone to Germany to borrow three has he?

 

Most definitely agree with you there sir. A police presence is required for crowds. But why TSG riot kit? For 6 hours? Before trouble has even been reported??

 

A few years ago I remember a police officer being disciplined or perhaps even fired for writing on Facebook he was looking forward to cracking some skulls at the May Day Protests. A joke you might think. But what about the death of Ian Tomlinson? Pushed over violently by a police officer for no real reason.

 

If you want to believe the Met are beyond reproach that's ok.

 

I don't.

 

---------- Post added 21-07-2016 at 02:45 ----------

 

He actually said "if" so was unsure himself i assume.

I dont think they did in my opinion, i think a much bigger problem was prevented.

 

Given the riots in london a few years ago and the recent black lives matter demonstations im sure the police are aware of which tactic of policing works best and i very much doubt heavy handed was the way they went about it.

 

Do you? What bigger problem was prevented? Loud music from stereos in a London park, before it's even dark? A park which just hosted 4 rock concerts that require about oh, half a million watts of PA?

 

I'm glad you believe our police are never heavy handed. I'm glad you think they did a good job during the riots of a few years ago. Though I seem to remember those actually stopped in London because, well, it rained. Or was that up just up north? Oh yeah, the London riots ended on the fourth day when police raised its numbers to 16,000 officers, rioters were bored and rumours had spread that the army were being called in. On day three the Met had raised their numbers from about 4,000 to 6,000 officers and....day three was the worst night of the rioting. Oops.

 

Unless you think they didn't do a good job during the 2011 riots and have learnt from that? So how come they were so useless on Tuesday? Where was the containment?

 

Yeah yellowperil, the Met is ace

Edited July 21, 2016 by Radan

[yellowperil]

Looking at your post as a whole its clear that you have a problem with the met !

I dont think anything i or anyone else could say would change that.

 

For the record though yes i think they did a great job on tuesday and prevented a much bigger problem from unfolding, you mention the 2011 riots and how bad they were but fail to comprehend that tuesday had the very real prospect of going the same way if it wasnt controlled and kept in order.

 

The fact that licenced music concerts have taken place there before is absolutely irrelevant, the point being that they were licenced and organised with restrictions to what they can play and what time they can start and finish as well as their own security and stewards etc.

 

Containment you say, well i dont think the objective was containment, the objective was to clear the park and stop the event, which they did with admittedly a few casualties along the way but as the casualties were caused by people attending the unorganised event then i think yes they did well.

 

You seem to think that the people setting up the sound system were going to be quite reasonable and responsible and stop playing music at a decent time so as not to upset the residents nearby, and they were of course only going to play songs from "hair" or the greatest hits of will smith! And no one at all was going to take to social media and say "hey were having a party in the park,weve already chased the feds off so get yourself down here,anything goes"!!

Come off it mate and get a reality check.

 

If you cant see that this unlicenced and unorganised event had the potential to spiral out of control very quickly then im glad you werent in charge.

[Berberis]

They didn't riot after they got rid of Maggi's poll tax

 

So what are you saying? The 2011 London Riots and the 1994 Luton Riots were fake?

Edited July 21, 2016 by Berberis

[Radan]

Looking at your post as a whole its clear that you have a problem with the met !

I dont think anything i or anyone else could say would change that.

 

For the record though yes i think they did a great job on tuesday and prevented a much bigger problem from unfolding, you mention the 2011 riots and how bad they were but fail to comprehend that tuesday had the very real prospect of going the same way if it wasnt controlled and kept in order.

 

The fact that licenced music concerts have taken place there before is absolutely irrelevant, the point being that they were licenced and organised with restrictions to what they can play and what time they can start and finish as well as their own security and stewards etc.

 

Containment you say, well i dont think the objective was containment, the objective was to clear the park and stop the event, which they did with admittedly a few casualties along the way but as the casualties were caused by people attending the unorganised event then i think yes they did well.

 

You seem to think that the people setting up the sound system were going to be quite reasonable and responsible and stop playing music at a decent time so as not to upset the residents nearby, and they were of course only going to play songs from "hair" or the greatest hits of will smith! And no one at all was going to take to social media and say "hey were having a party in the park,weve already chased the feds off so get yourself down here,anything goes"!!

Come off it mate and get a reality check.

 

If you cant see that this unlicenced and unorganised event had the potential to spiral out of control very quickly then im glad you werent in charge.

 

Those licenced concerts have annoyed a lot of local residents and wider Londoners in general. For one thing, they're loud. Very loud. Do you know the difference in wattage between a rock concert and a stereo??

 

For another; they hijack the park. It's a public space yet every summer it's closed down for ages to the public because of those concerts. Perhaps if you read about it you'd know that. That's why those kids wanted to spend time in the park. That is why it is relevant yellow. But I can't expect you to know that I guess.

 

Music from hair? No yellow, I think they'd play music black people like, which I think it's obvious to anyone reading you must have the problem with here. Why else do you think it's relevant to your post? Perhaps we are to assume that's why you say things would also spiral out of control and why you think a mostly white police force did a great job even though they failed to contain a waterfight that had been peaceful for hours and four people got stabbed. Why do you assume it could have been worse than that? Because they are black kids?

 

I have no issue with the Met per se, I just think they are often incompetent. You know nothing about riots either. If the riot started in the park, keep it there, it's evening, it's an open space, there a fewer members of the public, no property to damage etc. Instead the police managed to drive them all to Marble Arch! Laughable.

 

Don't let your petty prejudices ever confuse you into thinking you are right. Don't call me mate or tell me to have a reality check until you can answer those questions without looking worse than you do now.

 

I'm also glad I wasn't in charge. But I'd do a better job than you would.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Radan

[yellowperil]

For one ive not mentioned black or white anywhere in my post apart from a reference to will smith at one point.

 

I think the only thing i can say is i do love your ranting posts, infact i look forward to how you say youre very clever but then drastically fail to prove it.

A perfect example of this is your reasoning thet they wanted to spend time in the park because its usually hijacked by concerts!!!

 

If thats what you think is the true reason then its a waste of time even trying to debate with you.

 

Yes i know the difference between wattage of a rock concert and stereo by the way, and as has been said already the concerts are licenced,stewarded and organised so theres no comparison to be had anyway.

 

I have no petty prejudices as you claim and no assumptions need to be made about what i post,if i mean it, i say it, you dont need to assume.

 

Why do i think it would spiral out of control? Because very recent history in the area has shown that, do you think that can be ignored and the benefit of the doubt given?

 

There were lots of black youths there yes, you only have to look at the pictures from the day and any fool can see that, in fact id say a majority.

And i dont mean just mainatream media pics,i mean from all over social media aswell.

 

Some were chanting "black lives matter"! Whats that got to do with a waterfight in a park and the police trying to uphold the law that applies to you whatever your colour?

Some there had an agenda from the start,id guess that some didnt even know about the waterfight at all.

 

As for the residents/locals near the park being annoyed by the concerts that go on there do you think they get as annoyed by that as they did from the riots in 2011?

Do you not think every single person who had property,shops and cars destroyed in the riots would swap that for a bit of loud music in the distance that stops at a pre-arranged time and they are aware of before it happens? I know i think theyd swap in a heartbeat.

 

So what would you have done? Left them to it? Let the numbers swell until it was uncontrollable? Stood back and watch things unfurl and then say "well i didnt expect that would happen"?

 

Things like this need organisation and control,neither of which were there on the day so the police prescence was neccesary and i think they handled it well and yes prevented a much bigger incident in the best way they could and succeeded.

 

Of you think it would have passed without incident if left to play out then yes you need a reality check mate.

 

---------- Post added 21-07-2016 at 10:51 ----------

 

I know nothing about riots you say?

Do you know what would have been the quickest way to make sure it turned into one? Containment!

Yes they were hearded to marble arch but it wasnt a riot that was hearded, just the revellers,a riot was largely avoided because they didnt contain them.

Its human nature,you can be in the nicest place in the world but if you feel captive there you rebel and want to leave!

But what do i know eh

Edited July 21, 2016 by yellowperil

[Radan]

For one ive not mentioned black or white anywhere in my post apart from a reference to will smith at one point.

 

I think the only thing i can say is i do love your ranting posts, infact i look forward to how you say youre very clever but then drastically fail to prove it.

A perfect example of this is your reasoning thet they wanted to spend time in the park because its usually hijacked by concerts!!!

 

If thats what you think is the true reason then its a waste of time even trying to debate with you.

 

"Earlier this week, flyers had been distributed on social media advertising a free party, which brought hundreds of young people into the area. The unofficial event follows large parts of the park being closed to the public last week as the royal parks hosted their British Summer Time concerts, featuring stars such as Stevie Wonder, Pharrell, Carole King and Massive Attack.

 

There had been anger expressed by residents living nearby at the noise of the gigs, and by community activists at the fact what was once a public open space was now being used to make promoters and the royal parks large sums of money while blocking off access to local communities."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/19/stabbings-in-hyde-park-as-water-fight-turns-nasty

 

That should prove I know what I am talking about more than you do. You accused me of making it up. I didn't. I don't make claims I can't back up.

 

Do you know what would have been the quickest way to make sure it turned into one? Containment!

 

If you don't think containment is the best method to deal with a riot I suggest you contact the Met yourself and advise them to change their kettling policy.

 

You good buddy, pal o' mine, need to read up on things before you post.

 

I won't bother to answer the rest of your bile and dirge. To be frank, you bore me.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Radan

[yellowperil]

Containment is the best method to deal with a riot,i agree.

I suggest you read what i put rather than reply to what you think i put.

 

The concert statement is totally irrelevant!

Flyers about the waterfight were posted on social media you say?

Not everyone follows social media believe it or not so it wasnt advertised as such and definitely not as well as as the proper organised concerts you mention.