South Sea - Broomhill.

[*_ash_*]

Hi exhausted, good luck with running the pub.

 

I agree with Cyclone about the odd layout, very little seating for starters considering how big it is.

I'm not a great fan of those enormous settee type things, they take up masses of room, and you tend to be very far away from people across the table, so not good pubs for chatting when it's busy. (unless you're all standing)

 

I wouldn't change the name personally. Original pub names are better than silly names, and wouldn't affect trade IMO.

 

I like the pub, but when it's busy, it's very 'echo-y' and very loud (especially for people with fe*k*d up hearing like mine:hihi:

[goldenfleece]

For anyone interested, this is how I would do it, and I am not saying I would take on the SS, but I would take into account the following very carefully:

 

HISTORY OF THE AREA: Broomhill has been a communal student area for several decades now, and has been able to support FIVE pubs continuously with no problems. A 6th pub, THE PLACE opened some years back because there was still sufficient demand to fuel its success, and student numbers in the area were increasing every year.

 

Broomhill is economically largely dependant on students.....look all all the shops and cafes and you will see where its economic roots are buried. Few other areas would be able to support SIX pubs all within a minutes walk of each other...without the student market, I estimate 3 would close. I think the 3 to survive would be FOX AND DUCK, THE PLACE, BROOMHILL TAVERN, and the other 3 would be lost, as they have the current weakest identity and patronage.

 

FACT: student halls of residence are being pulled down in the area and a new student village is being rebuilt. This wont be ready for 2 years so the student numbers in the area are drastically down from what they were a year ago, most students now living in town. Therefore the number of students out drinking in Broomhill has seen a dramatic fall this year while the new student village is constructed.

 

All pubs in the area have felt the downward turn in trade since the Summer of last year, and its this reason why THREE of them have been on the market in the last 7 months, South Seas, Notty house and the Tavern have all been up for sale/lease, for the first time in the history of Broomhill 3 pubs, or even TWO, at once. In the past, to find a pub available in Broomhill was a very very hard thing to do, the Fox and Duck for example has not changed hands since 1987. Now suddenly we have 3 been offered in a short space of time, it rings dramatic and loud alarm bells to me!!! What is happening in the area...where are all the customers going.......why 3 out of 6 pubs for sale???

 

OK, Broomhill is more than students, there is local trade from surrounding adjacent areas yes, but enough to fuel SIX PUBS??? I dont think so.....I can't see it happening when the 3 I think will survive have such strong identities and patronage that has been built up from local support, and increasingly now, less students.

 

HOWEVER.....all the pubs have one good thing going for them all, they all are fundamentally very different from each other. The Broomhill Tavern is 30 seconds walk from the Place, but a totally different clientele and offer..THE YORK is 100% different again to most of the others.......its not as if all are the same bland decor and clones of each other, they all have a unique quality. Therefore it IS possible for all 6 pubs to survive, but I do mean JUST SURVIVE!!!.....I think the days of licensed retail flourishment in this area are over, at least for a couple more years before all the students return. The potential to make a profitable pub business in Broomhill I would say is strictly limited at the present time, UNLESS it can do a U turn in its fortune...a 100% U TURN ALL THE WAY!!!!

 

For the SS to work, it needs to spend a lot of time examining the USP's of all five other pubs, and working on an offer that is UNIQUE to the area, as far as it can go. From my experience of Broomhill lately what it needs for one is a quality and very versatile real ale outlet, the days of great cask ale in the Notty are long gone, and the Fox and Duck dont offer very much either, although to be fair the Place has a few good ones from time to time. Maybe free wireless internet would work here....specialist events and themed nights..there are plenty of options I could think of.....

 

.and what I think Broomhill REALLY NEEDS is a good late weekend bar running to 3 am or more, but the chances of a premises licence change in this area are remote due to the local residents outfit, Broomhill Residents Association, who have a LOT OF POWER on the Council.

 

But even that concept of real ales, as 3 of the other 5 offer cask ale (Tavern inc), is not enough. The SS has been blighted by its chav image and clientele for the last few years, and shifting that image is a real tough job. To be fair if it was me I would be barring many of the existing customers straight away, introducing like we have at the Dove, a NO BASEBALL CAP NO TRACKSUIT policy, and sticking to it..RIGIDLY.....and its a former SCREAM pub....unfortunately former SCream pubs across the UK have a tough time re-branding themselves....I think the YORK will find it very very tough when it too loses its Scream badge (the word is Scream are pulling out of the area as its a now dated and declining student brand that is now largely patronised by chavs....check out the YORK patrons if you dont believe me!!!)

 

Whitbreads SCREAM concept was great at the time, and it became the leading student brand pub chain, but like the TUT N SHIVE chain before it, it grew outdated very quickly and lost its student brand status.

 

But then.......the offer in place has to compensate for the lost trade....and judging from the SS patrons last time I was there, I would bar 100% of them!!!

 

Just a few thoughts......its a tough economic position the SS is in, with declining students in the area, and its dodgy image. Its possible to make it the best pub in Broomhill, of course it is.....but you got to get it right and get it right FAST, because otherwise, and I wont beat about the bush, its the first permanent pub closure victim in Broomhill.

 

I have some ideas though....message me....

[Nelly]

A friend of mine worked at Record Collector in Broomhill in the 80s and one day an American woman, who was a massive Def Leopard fan, came in on a pilgramage to visit all Joe Elliott's (the lead singer) old haunts.

My friend confirmed Joe Elliott used to buy records from Record Collector and took the woman to the South Seas which was one of Joe's regular drinking holes.

As the woman took-in the surroundings, Joe Elliott actually walked in and ordered a pint. The woman was visably trembling with excitement and too nervous to talk.. At that point Joe Elliott came over to them and said "Dunt thy work in Record Collector?"

[goldenfleece]

A friend of mine worked at Record Collector in Broomhill in the 80s and one day an American woman, who was a massive Def Leopard fan, came in on a pilgramage to visit all Joe Elliott's (the lead singer) old haunts.

My friend confirmed Joe Elliott used to buy records from Record Collector and took the woman to the South Seas which was one of Joe's regular drinking holes.

As the woman took-in the surroundings, Joe Elliott actually walked in and ordered a pint. The woman was visably trembling with excitement and too nervous to talk.. At that point Joe Elliott came over to them and said "Dunt thy work in Record Collector?"

 

Yep Def leppard used to hang out in the SS a lot from 1978 to the late 80's....I have seen two of them in their over a dozen times..there was a metal plaqur on the wall behind the bar in the back room at one point as a tribute to Def Leppard...that vanished when it became a Scream house......do something with that ROCK HERITAGE maybe???? hey, have some great ideas now.....

[Ade65]

Hi,

 

I agree with some of the things goldenfleece says, but not all of them.

 

The pubs are definitely quieter, and the Seas will need to find a way to make its mark.

 

Personally, I don't think wireless internet is such a good idea; laptops and booze, anyone?

 

And I don't think themed nights or special events are the way to go - they are exactly the type of thing that attracts students and the 'chav' type customers....not the locals in Broomhill - unless they are based around something a bit more grounded, like the folk nights that occasionally happen in the Fox.

 

The Place, Fox and Tavern are the strongest at present, but both the Place and the Tav have a lot of people who you don't tend to see elsewhere on Brommhill very often, so they may be a little atypical. But what all thre have had is good management. Also, of these, the Place seems to have dropped patronage numbers quite substantially too, especialy during the week.

 

I agree - and have also said - that offering different drinks would be a good starting point to differentiate the pub (once the awful decor is done away with!). A choice of different beers and lagers on draft to stand out from what is being offered elsewhere, which is just the run of the mill really.

 

But having good staff is also a key - they 'sell' your pub each time a customer approches the bar. Last Sunday night in Seas, a group of very normal lads came in just after 10PM, and had to wait a few minutes to get served because the staff weren't at the bar. Neither staff member was there. That would have lost my trade, I'd have gone elsewhere and given a different business my money. They also called last orders just after 10 past 10, and at half past the girl who was obviously in charge told her colleague to just give 5 minutes before telling people to drink up. Clearly these staff didn't care about the business, they're jjust clocking time and taking their pay.

 

However, I disagree with the idea that the Seas has been ruined by a 'chav' image; I think most people who drink on Broomhill just find it a boring pub now, because of the Scream/robo-factory/student idea that most of the students didn't even much care for......it just hasn't been a worthwhile place to go to reguarly.

 

The other thing too in promoting a new image. I've not heard anyone else on Broomhill even talk about this change; if the new management makes a positive start, welcoming customers and making an effort to let them know they are wanted and valued, the Seas can put up just as strong a fight as any other pub on the 'Hill.

 

Ade

[goldenfleece]

 

However, I disagree with the idea that the Seas has been ruined by a 'chav' image; I think most people who drink on Broomhill just find it a boring pub now, because of the Scream/robo-factory/student idea that most of the students didn't even much care for......it just hasn't been a worthwhile place to go to reguarly.

 

The other thing too in promoting a new image. I've not heard anyone else on Broomhill even talk about this change; if the new management makes a positive start, welcoming customers and making an effort to let them know they are wanted and valued, the Seas can put up just as strong a fight as any other pub on the 'Hill.

 

Ade

 

good point...but it was a few months ago I was last there and then it WAS full of chavs.....could have changed a bit this year as I said my opinion is based on 5 months ago when I was last there.....

 

Its a hit and miss game this pub lark! Strong Management is ESSENTIAL, and equally as you say above, good staff, well trained and pleasant to customers with a caring attitude. However, generally, with the exception of the Notty and the York, good staff and strong management are already in evidence in the area in the 3 strongest pubs.

 

What the SS needs is something more.....something thats not been done before for a long time perhaps.....themed pubs led the way in the early 80's remember, perhaps its time for a comeback? Not another fake Irish pub, but something that makes a very bold statement, almost as bold as the SCREAM pubs when they first hit Broomhill back in the 90's.......they worked so well at the beginning as they were unique to the area......

 

I dont think the traditional concept of the "old local" will work, thats already covered by the Tavern and that works well. The SS is not a traditional pub, its a flat roofed modern building that cant emulate a traditional boozer. Its ripe for something very bold, brave and daring perhaps....

[exhausted]

Ade

Thanks for your in put. You talk alot of sense and obviously frequent the pub and know it quite well. Its all systems go for the change over on the 11th April.(openning at 7.pm on the 12th) We realise that we have an uphill struggle particularly with the staff but I am a strong leader and licencee that has been in this business over 20 years and think I can make it work.

I know that 3 pubs in the area have changed hands in the last 9 months, this happens all over and I dont think it is cause for alarm in Broomhill. You have only got to look at the pubs in town and how often they change over to see that.

The more I think about it the more I like the idea of making it a more local feel with a different range of products to the norm and enough choices of cask ale that can be supported. Some times pubs stock too many cask ales and result in not serving any that are worth drinking because they dont have the turnover to support them.

Thanks again for your comments you have definately given me food for thought. Look forward to seeing all forum members then.

[Ade65]

SNIP

 

I dont think the traditional concept of the "old local" will work, thats already covered by the Tavern and that works well. The SS is not a traditional pub, its a flat roofed modern building that cant emulate a traditional boozer. Its ripe for something very bold, brave and daring perhaps....

 

Hi,

 

Shape aside, the Seas was a real, traditional old local when it was very busy - but that is a while back. I remember the oversized fishtank! and two room design as working well. Maybe it can't go back to that style of pub - but maybe it can.

 

Allegiances change quickly, and though the pubs on Broomhill may complement one another by their number - making it an area to visit - they are still competing, and oddly enough, it's the Place that has all the Saturday lunch regulars that I remember being in the Seas or the York from my youth (well, at least those of them who are still alive!), not the longer running places.

 

I also think that another pub can thrive if it's well run.....I still go to Broomhill regularly, and know others who do too; maybe more people would go, and more regularly, if there was another venue worth popping into; sort of a mini-regeneration - it could be the catalyst that's needed.

 

Ade

 

p.s. will have to pop in the Dove soon - last time I was there, Elfin were playing

[Ade65]

Ade

Thanks for your in put. You talk alot of sense and obviously frequent the pub and know it quite well. Its all systems go for the change over on the 11th April.(openning at 7.pm on the 12th) We realise that we have an uphill struggle particularly with the staff but I am a strong leader and licencee that has been in this business over 20 years and think I can make it work.

I know that 3 pubs in the area have changed hands in the last 9 months, this happens all over and I dont think it is cause for alarm in Broomhill. You have only got to look at the pubs in town and how often they change over to see that.

The more I think about it the more I like the idea of making it a more local feel with a different range of products to the norm and enough choices of cask ale that can be supported. Some times pubs stock too many cask ales and result in not serving any that are worth drinking because they dont have the turnover to support them.

Thanks again for your comments you have definately given me food for thought. Look forward to seeing all forum members then.

 

Hi,

 

Will definitely make a point of coming in that night to say hello - maybe we can get SF badges printed I hope my thoughts are of some use - obviously it's in my interest as a consumer to have a good source of product!

 

As for the staff - any you're inheriting - it could be that they aren't intrinsically bad/lazy/whatever, but just haven't had the leadership they need, and will respond positively for you.

 

See you soon!

 

Ade

[*_ash_*]

As for themed or traditional, there is a half way mark.

 

My local is the Closed Shop on Commonside, and I find that the perfect pub. It's still traditional(ish)but has a modern feel, friendly and attracts all ages. Pool table, poker nights, quizes etc etc, but also good to go to and chat.

 

I go to Broomhill quite a lot but not been in SS for a while, I'll pop in and say hello and have a few next time I'm up.