Inside the low wage economy..

[Anna B]

Let me be clear - I am not blaming you for the state of pensions etc. I blame you for bemoaning the current situation at every opportunity without a sense of perspective. 20K a year isn't a low income, yet you make it sound like it is practically impossible to live off based on what you see on a TV show.

A bit of grounding in reality would be good, most people in this country are well off.

 

I don't think I've ever claimed someone on 20K is living in poverty.

 

This is about living on minimum wage and 0 hour jobs, which is a lot less, and what is happening in the workplace. None of them earned 20K or anything like it.

Did you bother to watch the show? Or the programme that followed it afterwards? 'Can Britain afford a pay rise?' which was actually by far the more interesting. Both showed that Britain is not particularly well off, and we are getting poorer. This is what I am 'bemoaning' and it's quite right that somebody should.

 

This downward trend can and does affect anyone. There seems to be no safeguard against it. Low paid 0 hour jobs are becoming the norm. Several of these people are graduates or were once professional people; a graphic designer, a man who worked in the film industry. One lady used to be high up in a financial services earning in excess of 60K a year until redundancy struck. She has spent the last five years unemployed or in minimum wage jobs. Some are self- employed, and finding it impossible to earn even minimum wage. Yet these people are very hard working with a strong work ethic.

 

We now work the longest hours in Europe, supposedly have more people in employment than ever before, but productivity is 30% lower than Germany, it's even behind Italy. Why do you think that is?

[Cyclone]

You realise that what they "showed" isn't necessarily correct though.

 

In what way is Britain not well off and by what measure is it getting poorer? Inequality isn't increasing (income).

 

Low paid, zero hours jobs are not the norm, although I do think that zero hour contracts should be made illegal.

 

Do we work the longest in Europe (we might), and is this a new thing (I suspect not).

 

Productivity measured how.

 

Just apply a bit of critical analysis to things you see on the TV before repeating them as verbatim.

 

---------- Post added 25-08-2016 at 21:48 ----------

 

I know. Ive never been. My student experiences, such as they are, are in different student unions (SUs, which is where the confusion might be) all over the country.

 

Fair enough.

 

I get to see Bar One occasionally, and other students bars and pubs around Sheffield. I don't see many students nursing a latte or even a single beer.

[Anna B]

You realise that what they "showed" isn't necessarily correct though.

 

In what way is Britain not well off and by what measure is it getting poorer? Inequality isn't increasing (income).

 

Low paid, zero hours jobs are not the norm, although I do think that zero hour contracts should be made illegal.

 

Do we work the longest in Europe (we might), and is this a new thing (I suspect not).

 

Productivity measured how.

 

Just apply a bit of critical analysis to things you see on the TV before repeating them as verbatim.

 

I certainly realise that these programmes are edited, but it seemed an interesting experiment to me, and it was interesting to see what some of these minimum wage jobs involve. It has certainly proved to me that minimum wage does not necessarily mean minimum skills, nor could just 'anybody' do them.

 

Britain might not be getting poorer, but according to 'Can Britain afford a pay rise?' ordinary people certainly were, and it clearly explained why.

 

Low paid, 0 hours jobs may not be the norm at the moment, but they are certainly becoming so, and according to the programme, this sector is set to grow hugely in the future.

 

I have heard the 'longest hours in Europe' claim from several sources, and likewise, our lack of productivity is a well known fact, but it is usually 'Britain's lazy workers' that are blamed. At least this proffered a different argument and put the blame categorically elsewhere.

 

I have done quite a lot of research myself and have been plugging these arguments for a quite a while. These programmes merely confirmed what I had previously discovered and presented it in an interesting way. I don't think until you've watched these programmes yourself you are in a position to criticise me.

[tinfoilhat]

I certainly realise that these programmes are edited, but it seemed an interesting experiment to me, and it was interesting to see what some of these minimum wage jobs involve. It has certainly proved to me that minimum wage does not necessarily mean minimum skills, nor could just 'anybody' do them.

 

Britain might not be getting poorer, but according to 'Can Britain afford a pay rise?' ordinary people certainly were, and it clearly explained why.

 

Low paid, 0 hours jobs may not be the norm at the moment, but they are certainly becoming so, and according to the programme, this sector is set to grow hugely in the future.

 

I have heard the 'longest hours in Europe' claim from several sources, and likewise, our lack of productivity is a well known fact, but it is usually 'Britain's lazy workers' that are blamed. At least this proffered a different argument and put the blame categorically elsewhere.

 

I have done quite a lot of research myself and have been plugging these arguments for a quite a while. These programmes merely confirmed what I had previously discovered and presented it in an interesting way. I don't think until you've watched these programmes yourself you are in a position to criticise me.

 

I can take to you to a shop where a lady just stands behind a counter all day, talks to customers, rings a few bits through the till and does little else for NMW ("I can't stock out - bad back").

[mossdog]

I certainly realise that these programmes are edited, but it seemed an interesting experiment to me, and it was interesting to see what some of these minimum wage jobs involve. It has certainly proved to me that minimum wage does not necessarily mean minimum skills, nor could just 'anybody' do them.

 

Britain might not be getting poorer, but according to 'Can Britain afford a pay rise?' ordinary people certainly were, and it clearly explained why.

 

Low paid, 0 hours jobs may not be the norm at the moment, but they are certainly becoming so, and according to the programme, this sector is set to grow hugely in the future.

 

I have heard the 'longest hours in Europe' claim from several sources, and likewise, our lack of productivity is a well known fact, but it is usually 'Britain's lazy workers' that are blamed. At least this proffered a different argument and put the blame categorically elsewhere.

 

I have done quite a lot of research myself and have been plugging these arguments for a quite a while. These programmes merely confirmed what I had previously discovered and presented it in an interesting way. I don't think until you've watched these programmes yourself you are in a position to criticise me.

...........maybe the UK has had it's day in the sun Anna? and it's now time for millions of under privileged on the planet to venture forth for a better life we have enjoyed for ages.

We have no right in this framework of time to assume we should be top dogs..............it's there to be done of course by any nation,but if we feel ourselves sliding down the list we need to know why!

Politicians only offer sticking plaster solutions whilst forever kicking real solutions into the long grass that never really deal with the problems of risk,reward and productivity!

[Anna B]

I can take to you to a shop where a lady just stands behind a counter all day, talks to customers, rings a few bits through the till and does little else for NMW ("I can't stock out - bad back").

 

Oh yes, I too know a few people with cushy jobs, but they don't come up that often probably because those people who have them, hang on to them.

 

These programmes however were not about that. They were looking at the new minimum wage jobs that people who can't get anything else (and anything else is becoming rarer) are more or less forced to take. And the programme also pointed out that anyone could find themselves in that position; graduates, anyone over 50, basically anyone with bills to pay and no job.

 

Point is, not everybody is able to do them as these willing volunteers found out.

 

---------- Post added 26-08-2016 at 21:48 ----------

 

...........maybe the UK has had it's day in the sun Anna? and it's now time for millions of under privileged on the planet to venture forth for a better life we have enjoyed for ages.

We have no right in this framework of time to assume we should be top dogs..............it's there to be done of course by any nation,but if we feel ourselves sliding down the list we need to know why!

Politicians only offer sticking plaster solutions whilst forever kicking real solutions into the long grass that never really deal with the problems of risk,reward and productivity!

 

Couldn't agree more.

[Love2print]

Oh yes, I too know a few people with cushy jobs, but they don't come up that often probably because those people who have them, hang on to them.

 

These programmes however were not about that. They were looking at the new minimum wage jobs that people who can't get anything else (and anything else is becoming rarer) are more or less forced to take. And the programme also pointed out that anyone could find themselves in that position; graduates, anyone over 50, basically anyone with bills to pay and no job.

 

Point is, not everybody is able to do them as these willing volunteers found out.

 

I was a cleaner at one point and it is a physical job but nothing complicated mentally and I can imagine many people would not "lower" themselves to even try the job. Some other jobs require more skill but even then you still are only paid minimum wage or just above - this is a sad reality. I did the job because I needed to keep a roof over our heads, it was not for the enjoyment of cleaning - I do enough of that at home anyway.

 

One of my sister's friends was offered a job recently it wasn't brilliant money but she needed a job so you would have thought she would have taken it. Her response was "I am a graduate and I'm worth at least 26k". Oh how I had to laugh, many years ago maybe simply having a degree meant that you could get a well paid job without much effort. Now degrees are sadly ten a penny - that is not to devalue the work that students put in, many work hard but the problem is so do many others.

[ez8004]

I was a cleaner at one point and it is a physical job but nothing complicated mentally and I can imagine many people would not "lower" themselves to even try the job. Some other jobs require more skill but even then you still are only paid minimum wage or just above - this is a sad reality. I did the job because I needed to keep a roof over our heads, it was not for the enjoyment of cleaning - I do enough of that at home anyway.

 

One of my sister's friends was offered a job recently it wasn't brilliant money but she needed a job so you would have thought she would have taken it. Her response was "I am a graduate and I'm worth at least 26k". Oh how I had to laugh, many years ago maybe simply having a degree meant that you could get a well paid job without much effort. Now degrees are sadly ten a penny - that is not to devalue the work that students put in, many work hard but the problem is so do many others.

 

Depends on the degree and class. If you have an engineering degree with a 1st or 2:1 from a decent university, you shouldn't have a problem getting a job. People with 2:2s or lower might as well forget it. Over 50% of engineering graduates have a 1st or 2:1, how low do you think employers are willing to go down the list? Where you got your degree is also heavily considered even though I don't agree with this as all universities are externally moderated by others to ensure standards are maintained. So if you went to Hallam, expect a hill to climb compared to someone who went to Sheffield considering all else being equal.

[Love2print]

Depends on the degree and class. If you have an engineering degree with a 1st or 2:1 from a decent university, you shouldn't have a problem getting a job. People with 2:2s or lower might as well forget it. Over 50% of engineering graduates have a 1st or 2:1, how low do you think employers are willing to go down the list? Where you got your degree is also heavily considered even though I don't agree with this as all universities are externally moderated by others to ensure standards are maintained. So if you went to Hallam, expect a hill to climb compared to someone who went to Sheffield considering all else being equal.

 

Well its a degree in journalism. I was taking more about a general sense of entitlement that because you have a degree you will earn at least x amount.

 

Wiith some courses you may well stand a better chance of earning more. However just because you have an engineering degree does not mean ASDA will pay you more to stack shelfs. This is specifically what I was talking about although did not mention in my post. This person was offered a job unrelated to her degree, can't remember specifics, and there way no way they were going to pay her more just because she had a degree.

[Ms Macbeth]

I was surprised when I worked at the UKBA how many young graduates were employed there in basic admin roles. I got a part time job there after I retired, and many of the young new starters had been to university. That's fine if there is career progress, but I didn't get the feeling there was much.

 

My son graduated in the early 90s in Economics, but could only find a low paid job. Once he got a further qualification in IT, he got a 'graduate level' start and has been able to build an excellent career.