Inside the low wage economy..

[truman]

Maybe I'm just imagining it but I've noticed a lot of middle class types doing working class type work...shop floor work in shops for instance; probably due to the fact that they've left Uni with degrees in jobs that don't exist!

 

Could this be why a light is being shone more than ever before on poor working conditions and practices in this type of work because these middle class people are better at vocalising issues than working class people?

 

Could you define middle class and working class?

[tinfoilhat]

Maybe I'm just imagining it but I've noticed a lot of middle class types doing working class type work...shop floor work in shops for instance; probably due to the fact that they've left Uni with degrees in jobs that don't exist!

 

Could this be why a light is being shone more than ever before on poor working conditions and practices in this type of work because these middle class people are better at vocalising issues than working class people?

 

I suppose if you're working at Asda and you've got a degree in media studies you should be able to articulate your difficulties. Maybe a nice PowerPoint presentation.

 

I did read an article comparing Blackpool and Brighton the other day and some smug sod claimed that Brighton had the baristas with the most qualifications in the country as if it's a good thing.

 

---------- Post added 24-08-2016 at 23:02 ----------

 

Could you define middle class and working class?

 

Do they speak posh presumably.

[Anna B]

So he didn't actually need to walk 18 miles then. What a plank.

 

Oddly enough 18 miles is nowt. If you look in fields of Lincolnshire at this time of year they've travelled much, much further than that.

 

As handypandy said, he was entering into the spirit of the programme.

 

There are many low waged jobs that are out of town, on industrial estates, or hard to get to, particularly nightshifts when public transport isn't running. It's a problem.

And some people who have to take this sort of job won't have their own transport, so walking is an option. It also saves money. Maybe he was trying to highlight this. The contestants were given no help to get there, other than to 'use your initiative.'

As for him being 'a plank,' his extra effort saved him from elimination even though he was in the losing team.

 

No one seems to have picked up on the fact that although the start time was 7.30am, most of the people were there well before (some by hours,) and the last to arrive was also early, but still didn't get a job.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Anna B

[Guest]

Could you define middle class and working class?

 

I knew someone was going to ask me that. No I can't define the class system, I don't think anyone can definitively.

 

I know it seems daft and a bit simplistic but I'm noticing "posher", more well spoken people, people that you don't normally expect to find doing these menial type jobs that are normally earmarked for the likes of me!

 

---------- Post added 24-08-2016 at 23:24 ----------

 

 

Do they speak posh presumably.

 

You got it.

[truman]

I knew someone was going to ask me that. No I can't define the class system, I don't think anyone can definitively.

 

I know it seems daft and a bit simplistic but I'm noticing "posher", more well spoken people, people that you don't normally expect to find doing these menial type jobs that are normally earmarked for the likes of me!

 

---------- Post added 24-08-2016 at 23:24 ----------

 

 

You got it.

 

Maybe they've picked it up at uni...does going there make you middle class?

[Anna B]

I agree..I've done some rubbish jobs in my life, cleaned toilets on a huge building site,been a labourer in a foundry,delivered free newspapers,done fruit picking,done courier work,worked in a burger place etcetc..but I'm not there now..that's the important bit..I wonder what experience Anna has of this? Genuine question..

 

For those that are interested I didn't begin teaching until I was 40. before that I had a variety of jobs, the worst of which was working in the kitchens of BHS, although debt collecting on Park Hill and Wybourn came a close second. I've also done the usual bar work and waitressing, as well as a stint working in Middlewood Hospital. I was also in the Civil service, working ironically in a job centre. There were a couple of others which I'd rather not disclose, and I now do volunteer work with some of the least fortunate in society. Is that enough to qualify me to comment?

 

All these jobs have changed considerably since I did them, and were nothing like as pressured as minimum wage, 0 hour jobs are now. I also had 3 kids and a self-employed husband who brought in the lion's share of the money so I was lucky. It was only when I became a single parent that I realised I had to become qualified to get a better paying job to keep us all. And thank goodness that University was still free at the time (and with a small grant,) or I probably wouldn't have been able to do it.

 

I agree that some teachers seem to have had sheltered lives, and I always thought that having experience of the real world was a distinct advantage.

 

That do you?

[tzijlstra]

For those that are interested I didn't begin teaching until I was 40. before that I had a variety of jobs, the worst of which was working in the kitchens of BHS, although debt collecting on Park Hill and Wybourn came a close second. I've also done the usual bar work and waitressing, as well as a stint working in Middlewood Hospital. I was also in the Civil service, working ironically in a job centre. There were a couple of others which I'd rather not disclose, and I now do volunteer work with some of the least fortunate in society. Is that enough to qualify me to comment?

 

All these jobs have changed considerably since I did them, and were nothing like as pressured as minimum wage, 0 hour jobs are now. I also had 3 kids and a self-employed husband who brought in the lion's share of the money so I was lucky. It was only when I became a single parent that I realised I had to become qualified to get a better paying job to keep us all. And thank goodness that University was still free at the time (and with a small grant,) or I probably wouldn't have been able to do it.

 

I agree that some teachers seem to have had sheltered lives, and I always thought that having experience of the real world was a distinct advantage.

 

That do you?

 

So what you are saying, really, is that you are what the Dutch call a Saloon Socialist, moaning from your wing-backed chair.

[Santo]

It is another perfectly legitimate measure of average. Any system can be used when measuring averages. They all produce different results, which is one of the problems with statistics - they don't tell you which one was used and can chose whichever best proves their case. I'm sure the mode has been used when it suits them.

 

In this case it might be quite useful - the most common wage, difficult to calculate but it would stop the extremes skewing the results.

 

If you are quoting statistics for average salary in the UK from a source and the source doesn't describe the method used to determine how the average figure is obtained, the chances are you are reading a tabloid newspaper.

 

What this means is people that think they know what they are talking about will say things like, 'oh, of course it's X but how many people earn next to nothing to get that average when David Beckham earns Y??'

 

The thing with that argument is, the tabloid in question will have probably taken their figures from a body such as the ONS, who do know what they are talking about and will have removed outliers to prevent the result being skewed.

[Mister M]

Maybe I'm just imagining it but I've noticed a lot of middle class types doing working class type work...shop floor work in shops for instance; probably due to the fact that they've left Uni with degrees in jobs that don't exist!

 

Could this be why a light is being shone more than ever before on poor working conditions and practices in this type of work because these middle class people are better at vocalising issues than working class people?

 

It's a good point you've raised Alan.

 

About 10 years ago Polly Toynbee, of the Guardian, went undercover for a number of months working in the low wage economy. She wrote about the experiences of her, and those of her colleagues in a book called 'Hard Work'. It's a very good book and I'd recommend it, it places it all in a wider political and economic context.

Typically her critics, not being able to challenge her thesis and experiences, went for the jugular and played the class card.

[tinfoilhat]

Maybe they've picked it up at uni...does going there make you middle class?

 

I think that's the plan isn't it? You don't go there to be a well read bin man, in the main anyway.

 

I've a vague recollection though of Jarvis cocker commenting on the fact that within a week all students sound the same.