I1L2T3 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Was it? Looked like a perfectly normal train to me. And weren't the people shuffled around and some moved to first class so that Corbyn and his team could be all sat together? I don't know but I'm not sure that would have happened otherwise. . Looked extremely busy to me. I guess it depends what you think is normal. Having just looked at stills from the footage it seems that the empty seats Virgin is claiming Corbyn walked past were in the food bar. I did notice as well that not every person's face was obscured so Virgin broke the DPA by releasing images of those people as well. Oops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjodeano Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 I would imagine he was offered a first class seat because of his status as the leader of the opposition - it probably doesn't look good that he was sat on the floor (despite the fact we now know there were seats available). The timing of the CCTV footage shows him walking past empty seats and empty reserved seats when making his journey to the vestibule, it was not the case the seats he ended up in were only made available after staff moved people around. I suspect, although don't know for sure, that people were moved to first class so that his team could sit together as it would be easier for staff to get someone to move by offering them a free upgrade to first class as opposed to asking politely if they would mind moving to another empty economy class seat so that some Corbyn helper could sit there instead. ---------- Post added 28-08-2016 at 17:59 ---------- Why would having a meeting that morning prevent him, or one of his team, taking the 3 minutes it takes to book a train ticket online? If he can't manage that I really don't want to see what he would be like trying to run the country. so why were there other people sat on the floor unable to find an empty seat as well?, and why did these other people speak up on his behalf and confirm there were no seats available.?? ---------- Post added 28-08-2016 at 18:06 ---------- I would imagine he was offered a first class seat because of his status as the leader of the opposition - it probably doesn't look good that he was sat on the floor (despite the fact we now know there were seats available). I have stood in train vestibules many many times in my life. I have never been offered a first class seat. The timing of the CCTV footage shows him walking past empty seats and empty reserved seats when making his journey to the vestibule, it was not the case the seats he ended up in were only made available after staff moved people around. I suspect, although don't know for sure, that people were moved to first class so that his team could sit together as it would be easier for staff to get someone to move by offering them a free upgrade to first class as opposed to asking politely if they would mind moving to another empty economy class seat so that some Corbyn helper could sit there instead. ---------- Post added 28-08-2016 at 17:59 ---------- Why would having a meeting that morning prevent him, or one of his team, taking the 3 minutes it takes to book a train ticket online? If he can't manage that I really don't want to see what he would be like trying to run the country. no idea, does everybody book a train ticket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin-H Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 so why were there other people sat on the floor unable to find an empty seat as well?, and why did these other people speak up on his behalf and confirm there were no seats available.?? ---------- Post added 28-08-2016 at 18:06 ---------- no idea, does everybody book a train ticket? I don't know, there are probably a few possible reasons. The timestamped CCTV footage clearly shows him walking past both completely empty seats (in coach H) and empty but reserved seats in coach F. He then films his little stunt, and returns to coach H. I presume staff moved some of the people sat there so that his whole team could be sat together. I am pretty sure the CCTV footage is not doctored, so that there must be another reason why people were with him in the vestibule. It could perhaps be that they entered at that vestibule, saw people sat down or standing around in there, decided the train must therefore be ram packed and stayed there. I also have chosen sometimes to stand in the vestibule instead of taking a seat, if I know I will need to make a phone call, or perhaps am feeling particularly sneezy (!). As for the people claiming that the train was indeed ram packed, it could be a genuine misunderstanding of the reality of the situation (as I have explained), and it is not unheard of for people to not tell the truth (as Corbyn himself has proved). ---------- Post added 28-08-2016 at 18:18 ---------- so why were there other people sat on the floor unable to find an empty seat as well?, and why did these other people speak up on his behalf and confirm there were no seats available.?? ---------- Post added 28-08-2016 at 18:06 ---------- no idea, does everybody book a train ticket? No of course not, but I would have thought that he would have seeing as it was so important he was sat with his wife and the rest of his team. I know that trains are sometimes very busy. I know that in order to ensure I get a seat I need to book in advance. I am pretty sure that Corbyn would know that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 I know that trains are sometimes very busy. I know that in order to ensure I get a seat I need to book in advance. I am pretty sure that Corbyn would know that too. Yes but by not doing so he is highlighting the issues of people who have to travel at short notice. Perfectly legitimate thing to do. People should not be penalised for making last minute decisions to travel, or being forced to travel at short notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Yes but by not doing so he is highlighting the issues of people who have to travel at short notice. Perfectly legitimate thing to do. People should not be penalised for making last minute decisions to travel, or being forced to travel at short notice. Out of curiosity, what percentage of travellers pre-book as opposed turn up on the day? And where do season ticket holders stand? What percentage are season ticket holders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjodeano Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Out of curiosity, what percentage of travellers pre-book as opposed turn up on the day? And where do season ticket holders stand? What percentage are season ticket holders? and also out of curiosity, does booking a ticket guarantee you a seat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin-H Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 and also out of curiosity, does booking a ticket guarantee you a seat Yes. Booked tickets come with a seat reservation. There may be someone sat in your place but you can kindly ask them to leave. (at least on the train lines I use, I can't speak for all trains) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Corbyn vindicated by none other than the MD of Virgin Trains East Coast https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/28/virgin-broke-rules-releasing-corbyn-cctv-document 'However, leaked emails reveal that the managing director of Virgin Trains East Coast told staff that the controversy had highlighted how crowded services can be, and that finding seats could make customers anxious and stressed. David Horne also admitted having to stand by a customer toilet for a journey of almost 200 miles, from Newark to London. He said that was during Virgin’s “hot seat week”, when directors and managers are banned from travelling in first class in order to “take a hard look at our standard class offer”. On Friday, he wrote: “Putting politics aside, this incident demonstrates just how busy many of our services are, those in the middle of the day as well as at peak times.” Horne also said the controversy highlighted the “great job” that Virgin guards did in helping to find seats for customers on busy services, after a family were upgraded to first class so that Corbyn and his team were able to sit down later in the journey. “We know from our ‘ideal customer experience’ research that boarding a train and finding a seat can be one of the most anxious, stressful times for our customers, particularly if they do not travel by train frequently,” he said. “Endless rows of seats with reservation labels inevitably can increase the tension. So top marks to our guards who, day in day out, help customers to find empty seats on busy services – on this occasion it was Newcastle guard Ian Mitchell who is due the credit.”' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin-H Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Corbyn vindicated by none other than the MD of Virgin Trains East Coast https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/28/virgin-broke-rules-releasing-corbyn-cctv-document 'However, leaked emails reveal that the managing director of Virgin Trains East Coast told staff that the controversy had highlighted how crowded services can be, and that finding seats could make customers anxious and stressed. David Horne also admitted having to stand by a customer toilet for a journey of almost 200 miles, from Newark to London. He said that was during Virgin’s “hot seat week”, when directors and managers are banned from travelling in first class in order to “take a hard look at our standard class offer”. On Friday, he wrote: “Putting politics aside, this incident demonstrates just how busy many of our services are, those in the middle of the day as well as at peak times.” Horne also said the controversy highlighted the “great job” that Virgin guards did in helping to find seats for customers on busy services, after a family were upgraded to first class so that Corbyn and his team were able to sit down later in the journey. “We know from our ‘ideal customer experience’ research that boarding a train and finding a seat can be one of the most anxious, stressful times for our customers, particularly if they do not travel by train frequently,” he said. “Endless rows of seats with reservation labels inevitably can increase the tension. So top marks to our guards who, day in day out, help customers to find empty seats on busy services – on this occasion it was Newcastle guard Ian Mitchell who is due the credit.”' Are we really going to start pretending the Corbyn discovered that trains were busy and that this had someone previously gone un-noted. Give me strength! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfox Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 (edited) Corbyn vindicated by none other than the MD of Virgin Trains East Coast You think that "vindicates" Corbyn do you ? Whatever point he or his "team" thought they were making by releasing the film it has been a spectacular error. The point has been utterly forgotten in the frenzy caused by the fact he wasn't exactly being honest was he nor has he displayed the sort of judgement you might want or expect from someone who seeks the highest political office. Lord help him in general election - the press will destroy his past, his present and he can forget his future. While I'm at it - he would be far better served having something to say about the loss of thousands of jobs potentially and a pension pot that someone has left rather empty - namely the BHS collapse. Frank Field has made the running on it (not everyone's cup of tea I know) whereas Jezza and his cabal are no-where to be seen. I would have thought working people - and those employed by BHS- would like to see and hear a Labour leader getting involved in this one! Edited August 28, 2016 by redfox fixed the quotes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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