More cuts for the NHS

[petemcewan]

The NHS has been on a downward spiral for years.

 

Along comes brexit

 

Yay something to blame

 

The NHS is a bottomless pit of tax payers money, no accountability. Once upon a time it was a good idea, now it's the biggest corrupt organisation on the planet.

 

Time to get rid.

 

The NHS was a good idea at its inception,it's a good idea now, it's a good idea for the futures. The NHS with all its faults is a guarantee of access to healthcare for all. Long may it continue.

 

---------- Post added 27-08-2016 at 11:54 ----------

 

No idea...you asked for abuses of the system...I suggested one..are you saying that they aren't a drain on the system?

 

In my opinion, they are a burden on the system (drunks in A+E -7days a week and not just on Friday). The BMA think that charging a set group for treatment would be unworkable. But charging drunks for treatment at A+E has been floated .

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/charge-drunks-for-ae-care-but-that-might-make-them-angrier-9662417.html

Edited August 27, 2016 by petemcewan

[I1L2T3]

History is the real world. I never claimed the Conservatives were the creators of the NHS, and I said that some version of the NHS was also in the Labour and Lib Dem 1945 manifestos.

 

I know about the Beveridge Report, I also know how much Ernest Bevin fought against it, and how it was hated by the British Medical Association (who voted 8:1 against it). I think Aneurin Bevan only won some of them round by allowing private beds in hospitals.

 

I just don't agree with the fanciful idea you often seen thrown about that the Conservative party want to dismantle the NHS (for which there is no evidence).

 

Back to today. I think the main problems with the NHS are the disastrous use of PFI schemes, the over reliance of massively overpaid locum doctors, and there being far too many pointless and wasteful middle managers.

 

As for the £350m - I don't think anyone believed that did they? It was widely reported that that figure was incorrect long before the vote.

 

Right so the £350m was a lie and instead of more money for the NHS we are going to get less.

 

Like I asked earlier do you trust these people?

 

I don't disagree with your assessment of where some of the problems with the NHS lie but in all honesty I don't think the Tories can be trusted to look after it any more than Labour can.

[Robin-H]

Right so the £350m was a lie and instead of more money for the NHS we are going to get less.

 

Like I asked earlier do you trust these people?

 

I don't disagree with your assessment of where some of the problems with the NHS lie but in all honesty I don't think the Tories can be trusted to look after it any more than Labour can.

 

I didn't say the Tories can be trusted any more than Labour, but I don't buy into this idea that they are a lot worse. Some people have weird notions about the dismantling of the NHS, which as far as I can tell are completely unfounded.

 

As I said, I put a lot of the blame of the current financial crisis within the NHS on PFI deals, which was started under John Major, so I am no way saying that the Conservative Party are blameless.

 

I do however put a lot of the blame on the Labour Party, who so fervently embraced the idea of PFI schemes that between 1997 and 2008, 90 per cent of all hospital construction funding was under PFI agreements. Indeed as far as I can tell all but one of the PFI agreements was signed by Labour.

 

The Barts Health Trust cost £1.1billion to build. It will cost the government £7.1billion in repayments under the PFI scheme. That to me seems absolutely scandalous.

[Anna B]

I didn't say the Tories can be trusted any more than Labour, but I don't buy into this idea that they are a lot worse. Some people have weird notions about the dismantling of the NHS, which as far as I can tell are completely unfounded.

 

As I said, I put a lot of the blame of the current financial crisis within the NHS on PFI deals, which was started under John Major, so I am no way saying that the Conservative Party are blameless.

 

I do however put a lot of the blame on the Labour Party, who so fervently embraced the idea of PFI schemes that between 1997 and 2008, 90 per cent of all hospital construction funding was under PFI agreements. Indeed as far as I can tell all but one of the PFI agreements was signed by Labour.

 

The Barts Health Trust cost £1.1billion to build. It will cost the government £7.1billion in repayments under the PFI scheme. That to me seems absolutely scandalous.

 

Totally agree.

 

PFI was the worst kind of short-termism: something for nothing at the time the governments were in power. They knew they'd be long gone when the chickens came home to roost, leaving others to clear up the mess.

 

Care homes are another example, with fees now rising to the £1,000 a week mark. Pensioners and their relatives are expected to pay this, for what is a very substandard level of care in many cases.

[I1L2T3]

I didn't say the Tories can be trusted any more than Labour, but I don't buy into this idea that they are a lot worse. Some people have weird notions about the dismantling of the NHS, which as far as I can tell are completely unfounded.

 

As I said, I put a lot of the blame of the current financial crisis within the NHS on PFI deals, which was started under John Major, so I am no way saying that the Conservative Party are blameless.

 

I do however put a lot of the blame on the Labour Party, who so fervently embraced the idea of PFI schemes that between 1997 and 2008, 90 per cent of all hospital construction funding was under PFI agreements. Indeed as far as I can tell all but one of the PFI agreements was signed by Labour.

 

The Barts Health Trust cost £1.1billion to build. It will cost the government £7.1billion in repayments under the PFI scheme. That to me seems absolutely scandalous.

 

Yet Osborne continued with it under the guise of PF2 which is even worse

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/report-new-pfi-initiative-will-saddle-nhs-trusts-with-worse-debts-than-before-9882892.html

 

I agree Labour can't be trusted but I don't see anything more promising in the Tories.

 

What I do see is a whole bunch of them lying about an extra £350m a week for the NHS, admitting the lie as soon as they had duped the public and then the prospect of them walking through the lobbies to vote through cut after cut to the NHS.

[Mr Gobby]

When people end up in A/E through alcohol OR drug missuse they should charge them a drying out fee.

[Anna B]

When people end up in A/E through alcohol OR drug missuse they should charge them a drying out fee.

 

Can't argue with that. ....Except....

Where do you draw the line? What about somebody doing something utterly foolhardy and stupid? Then what about dangerous sports? Or smoking.... See where I'm going with this...?

[ukdobby]

We get BBC south news here and have just seen the leader of NHS southern division finally step down and she has kept her 180k salary and moved to an advisory position,now if she can't do her job how the heck can she be an advisor,:loopy:so now there will be 2 on the salary and will need to get rid of 6 nurses to fund it,you just can't make it up.

Edited August 30, 2016 by ukdobby

[truman]

Can't argue with that. ....Except....

Where do you draw the line? What about somebody doing something utterly foolhardy and stupid? Then what about dangerous sports? Or smoking.... See where I'm going with this...?

 

What about making it compulsory to have insurance if you participate in "dangerous sports"

[unbeliever]

The NHS was a good idea at its inception,it's a good idea now, it's a good idea for the futures. The NHS with all its faults is a guarantee of access to healthcare for all. Long may it continue.

 

Universal healthcare is a good idea. It is not necessary to fully nationalise the system in order to get it. Nor is it necessary to fund it entirely through the state.

 

There are many options to choose from:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_coverage_by_country

 

Fully or largely state-funded healthcare is quite common in universal systems. Though it is quite possible to achieve it with some private funding. However full nationalisation is rare.