The end of the Labour party

[unbeliever]

Whether he admits it or not he's an absolute Blairite to his core.

 

Either that or he just doesn't believe in anything other than winning.

[Santo]

Is it just me or is the conspiracy theory talk we hear all the time these days a uniquley Corbyn supporter phenomena? And the claims of media bias against him?

 

The Mail ran a story about Miliband's dad, The Man Who Hated Britain or something. The Sun ran a headline about Miliband saying, 'Miliband Fails to Eat Bacon Sandwich Normally.' No-one cried foul. No-one cried conspiracy. No-one questioned if he was under unfair scrutiny. No-one claimed bad press was because The Powers that Be feared him and wanted to eliminate the threat.

 

Along comes Corbyn and anything negative in the press or on the Beeb is called a media conspiracy. We are told by his supporters that 'The Establishment' are scared to death of him. Are they? Why?

 

If 'The Establishment' was that afraid of Corbyn they could ruin him. Easily. I'm talking Canuck letter, Zinoviev letter dirty tricks. Sending rabble-rousers to his hustings and other public meetings, honey-trapping him, forging documents, faking campaign propaganda. 'They' could absolutely wipe him out in a heartbeat if they hold so much power.

 

We are told by Banjodeano that the party is purging it's members like something in North Korea (his words, not mine!). Why bother; the all powerful Establishment could just rig the vote. Why go to all that trouble?

 

We were told the brick thrown threw Angela Eagle's window wasn't thrown threw her window at all. So it was probably random vandalism. But what a great idea, why don't the all powerful Establishment have her office torched and line up a Momentum patsy? That would get groovy press!

 

Except....Corbyn misleads about how busy a train is, get's called on it and that is labelled a conspiracy by his supporters. It's media bias etc etc. Really? That's the best that THEY (The Establishment, the media, the Tories, the Corporations, Big Business, the Arms Industry, Mossad ad nauseum) can do is it?

 

Doesn't stack up. So it must be concluded.....no conspiracy.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Santo

[Mayfly182]

Well, I'm out whoever wins.

My mum and I are both currently Labour party members. Just after voting opened she asked me who I was voting for, and then when I said I was unsure told me she should have me sectioned for even considering the 'wrong' candidate.

She didn't seem to be joking, she sounded quite angry.

It's really been getting to me. My mum's said some off-colour things before but saying I ought to be sectioned is mean by any standards.

I've been thinking about it and I no longer want to vote for either party or have anything to do with the Labour party. It's not worth this.

[Phanerothyme]

Is it just me or is the conspiracy theory talk we hear all the time these days a uniquley Corbyn supporter phenomena? And the claims of media bias against him?

 

The Mail ran a story about Miliband's dad, The Man Who Hated Britain or something. The Sun ran a headline about Miliband saying, 'Miliband Fails to Eat Bacon Sandwich Normally.' No-one cried foul. No-one cried conspiracy. No-one questioned if he was under unfair scrutiny. No-one claimed bad press was because The Powers that Be feared him and wanted to eliminate the threat.

 

Along comes Corbyn and anything negative in the press or on the Beeb is called a media conspiracy. We are told by his supporters that 'The Establishment' are scared to death of him. Are they? Why?

 

If 'The Establishment' was that afraid of Corbyn they could ruin him. Easily. I'm talking Canuck letter, Zinoviev letter dirty tricks. Sending rabble-rousers to his hustings and other public meetings, honey-trapping him, forging documents, faking campaign propaganda. 'They' could absolutely wipe him out in a heartbeat if they hold so much power.

 

We are told by Banjodeano that the party is purging it's members like something in North Korea (his words, not mine!). Why bother; the all powerful Establishment could just rig the vote. Why go to all that trouble?

 

We were told the brick thrown threw Angela Eagle's window wasn't thrown threw her window at all. So it was probably random vandalism. But what a great idea, why don't the all powerful Establishment have her office torched and line up a Momentum patsy? That would get groovy press!

 

Except....Corbyn misleads about how busy a train is, get's called on it and that is labelled a conspiracy by his supporters. It's media bias etc etc. Really? That's the best that THEY (The Establishment, the media, the Tories, the Corporations, Big Business, the Arms Industry, Mossad ad nauseum) can do is it?

 

Doesn't stack up. So it must be concluded.....no conspiracy.

I don't think you need to believe in conspiracies behind traingate.

 

Branson obviously does not want Corbyn to get even near No.10, where he could simply take Rich's train set away, not to mention his doctors and nurses outfit. Virgin hit back at Corbyn as hard as possible, seems obvious enough, it's what I would do.

 

I think that if Corbyn succeeds in any meaningful way it will be down to the antis, the students, the long term non-voters &the disenchanted coming out in their droves to create an unprecedented surge in the turnout. Corbyn's biggest challenge, after leading the labour party, is to appeal to the semi-mythical white van and mondeo men. But if he can also get significant numbers of eligible but unregistered voters to register and vote, then mondeo man and his friends will find the ground moving beneath their feet.

 

That would be pretty seismic though. And colossally unlikely tbh.

 

I think the media have treated him very much like Nigel Farage. Some will eventually temper their coverage and even support him if he can show some promise of longevity as leader.

 

I think the PLP is too fearful of the consequences of splitting the party, and the vote, but they can't see a way forward either and seem to be milling about like uncertain sheep.

 

But the country may well have an even greater appetite for a protest vote, and in the fevered imaginings of momentum bunnies, people will be waking up in 2020 saying "I only voted labour to protest against x I didn't expect them to actually win".

 

It could happen here. But I doubt it.

[banjodeano]

Is it just me or is the conspiracy theory talk we hear all the time these days a uniquley Corbyn supporter phenomena? And the claims of media bias against him?

 

The Mail ran a story about Miliband's dad, The Man Who Hated Britain or something. The Sun ran a headline about Miliband saying, 'Miliband Fails to Eat Bacon Sandwich Normally.' No-one cried foul. No-one cried conspiracy. No-one questioned if he was under unfair scrutiny. No-one claimed bad press was because The Powers that Be feared him and wanted to eliminate the threat.

 

Along comes Corbyn and anything negative in the press or on the Beeb is called a media conspiracy. We are told by his supporters that 'The Establishment' are scared to death of him. Are they? Why?

 

If 'The Establishment' was that afraid of Corbyn they could ruin him. Easily. I'm talking Canuck letter, Zinoviev letter dirty tricks. Sending rabble-rousers to his hustings and other public meetings, honey-trapping him, forging documents, faking campaign propaganda. 'They' could absolutely wipe him out in a heartbeat if they hold so much power.

 

We are told by Banjodeano that the party is purging it's members like something in North Korea (his words, not mine!). Why bother; the all powerful Establishment could just rig the vote. Why go to all that trouble?

 

We were told the brick thrown threw Angela Eagle's window wasn't thrown threw her window at all. So it was probably random vandalism. But what a great idea, why don't the all powerful Establishment have her office torched and line up a Momentum patsy? That would get groovy press!

 

Except....Corbyn misleads about how busy a train is, get's called on it and that is labelled a conspiracy by his supporters. It's media bias etc etc. Really? That's the best that THEY (The Establishment, the media, the Tories, the Corporations, Big Business, the Arms Industry, Mossad ad nauseum) can do is it?

 

Doesn't stack up. So it must be concluded.....no conspiracy.

what. and you dont think that is what they have tried? from day one they have tried to belittle him, if you cant see that then there is little more i can say, not singing the national anthem, the way he dresses, constant anti Corbyn material from day one.....they have incidently sent rabble rousers to his meetings, this has already been done

Edited September 1, 2016 by banjodeano

[pacifica]

This is a great example of what I was talking about back in post #74, part of which I'll repeat:

 

"The pattern is a familiar one. The right propose some policy (monetarism, privatisation, PFI, internal markets etc.). The left point out that it won't work. The right say don't worry, everything is safe in our hands. They get elected and go ahead with the policies. Twenty or thirty years later, it's become clear that the policy doesn't work, but by that time it's too late/expensive/difficult to do anything about it - or at least, that's what the right will tell you."

 

For me, the question is: Why do parties need to follow policies that are patently not in the best interests of most of the people in the country, in order to get elected? One possible answer is: Because of the electoral system, it's not "most of the people in the country" who get to determine the result of a general election, but a few swing voters in midland marginals, Nuneaton or wherever.

 

Another possible answer is: A lot of people don't vote on the basis of policies, they vote on the basis of PR, spin, propaganda, character assassinations. At the last general election, the big issue was not "Are the austerity measures serving the people of the country well?", or even "Who will listen to poor white folks' concerns about immigration?" (though that was an issue), but "Can Ed Miliband eat a bacon sandwich convincingly?".

 

[incidentally I hope that people wouldn't be concerned about rail subsidies merely because they don't personally use the railway. Millions of people use the rail to get to work every day, and without it the economy and/or the roads would grind to a halt.]

 

But we are discussing the labour parties prospects of electability and potential disintegration and I don't see much attempt at a unified party after the leadership election. There are threats of deselection against anyone who steps out of line, and this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/01/jeremy-corbyn-supporters-expelled-from-labour-for-threats-to-cut/

I'm not seeing a party that will emerge from this in any position to challenge for government.

Regarding rail subsidies; we already pay massive subsidies. Non rail users pay about half the fare of those who use the railways and I doubt many would think that extra taxation to increase that would be a good idea.

[El Cid]

I don't want Labour in government. I didn't really want them to self-destruct. But I don't want Corby or Owen Smith as leader of the opposition. Do you?

 

You like Tim Farron then

 

I dont think the people will elect a nightmare party, so I am not too worried. Smith is the better of the two, more electable.

Smith is too much on the left to win a majority, but that is not to say a very much more left wing Government could not run the country well.

[alchresearch]

what. and you dont think that is what they have tried? from day one they have tried to belittle him, if you cant see that then there is little more i can say, not singing the national anthem, the way he dresses, constant anti Corbyn material from day one.....they have incidently sent rabble rousers to his meetings, this has already been done

 

Its no worse than what the media did to Miliband, Farage, and even going back to Hague.

 

Farage has suffered far worse - any opportunity to take a bad photo, they have done, such as this:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/10/01/ukip-nigel-farage-hitler-moustache_n_4021180.html

[Santo]

what. and you dont think that is what they have tried? from day one they have tried to belittle him, if you cant see that then there is little more i can say, not singing the national anthem, the way he dresses, constant anti Corbyn material from day one.....they have incidently sent rabble rousers to his meetings, this has already been done

 

You have highlighted a small fraction of my post. Why don't you read and understand the whole thing and look at how utterly ludicrous you sound?

 

As pointed out, the Sun ran a story about how Miliband failed to look normal eating a sandwich. One paper had a story asking how weird the reader thought he was.

 

Corbyn didn't sing the anthem!

 

Have rabble rousers been sent? Have they? LMAO!

 

Take your conspiracy theories away and grow up.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Santo

[banjodeano]

You have highlighted a small fraction of my post. Why don't you read and understand the whole thing and look at how utterly ludicrous you sound?

 

As pointed out, the Sun ran a story about how Miliband failed to look normal eating a sandwich. One paper had a story asking how weird the reader thought he was.

 

Corbyn didn't sing the anthem!

 

Have rabble rousers been sent? Have they? LMAO!

 

Take your conspiracy theories away and grow up.

 

Oh dear, it's always a sad sign when people make it Personel