The end of the Labour party

[Obelix]

I was actually being nice to you.

It must be my northern grittiness coming through.

 

Are you going to bother answering the question?

 

---------- Post added 25-02-2017 at 00:40 ----------

 

At least Corbyn is seen as decent and honest.

 

No he isn't.

 

He's an IRA supporting pink tinged lefty. Hes not honest and hes certainly not decent unless you think supporting attacks on the UK and it's armed forces is "decent".

 

Corbyn? I'd take great pleasure in throwing the odious little **** off my land if ever he was fool enough to canvass on my door.

[Anna B]

 

I think there is probably an in built bias among the media against anyone who has views that are considered to the left of the 'Overton Window', and that is unfortunate....But the paradox is that after the financial crash of 2008, when there was a crisis at the heart of the economic system in many Western countries, logically one would expect social democratic parties across Europe to do well, yet many of the electorate in those countries have moved rightwards. Exactly why this is, I don't know.

__________________________________________________________________

 

I think the Tories did a fine job of brainwashing the general public into blaming Labour for the financial crash of 2008 with their oft repeated Mantra about 'the mess that Labour left us in.'

 

For over 2 years this was repeated by every single Conservative spokesman in every single media interview, whether about economics or not. To such an extent that it literally brainwashed a lot of people into believing it, and, against all the evidence to the contrary, some still repeat it even now.

 

Labour did not crash the economy, the banks did, and not just in the Uk but all over Europe, but that was a much more complex issue and harder to reduce to a pithy, easily digestible soundbite, indeed it was probably necessary to research online to understand what had happened, as the mainstream media didn't offer much in the way of explanation.

 

It has made the public distrusting of Labour, and the media vendetta has made them distrusting of (again, oft repeated 'leftwing',) Jeremy Corbyn. Added to this we have the internal struggle between the Corbynistas and the Blairites who do not seem to realise that since the 2008 crash the 'centre ground' has moved to the left, and that pre-crash Blairite thinking ('we're all middle class now') has undergone a sea change. IMO it is they who are out of step, not Corbyn.

 

With all this confusion and dissent is it surprising that the extreme right wing who are obnoxious, but offer simplistic solutions are doing well.

[banjodeano]

Indeed, and I think banjodeano realises that, but maybe thinks admitting that they got it wrong is a sign of weakness (whereas I feel freely admitting your mistakes is an indication of a strong character) and so is stubbornly sticking to their guns, which is making them look rather foolish..

 

ok...i got it wrong, i made a mistake with my big gob, now are you happy, are you happy that i have publicly flagellated myself :hihi:

[Robin-H]

ok...i got it wrong, i made a mistake with my big gob, now are you happy, are you happy that i have publicly flagellated myself

 

A simple 'oh yes sorry I meant deficit, not debt' would have sufficed, no flagellation necessary (although I'm aware that would have somewhat negated your original point, as the deficit hasn't doubled).

[Anna B]

A simple 'oh yes sorry I meant deficit, not debt' would have sufficed, no flagellation necessary (although I'm aware that would have somewhat negated your original point, as the deficit hasn't doubled).

 

The debt has grown massively under the Conservatives.

[Robin-H]

The debt has grown massively under the Conservatives.

 

The debt can't decrease until we no longer have a deficit but have a surplus instead, which presumably can then start paying down the actual debt.

 

The debt was therefore going to grow until the deficit was tackled. The increase in debt is therefore nothing to do with Conservative policies, but a consequence of having a large deficit, which they have reduced.

 

I'm sure you are not suggesting that the debt would have not grown as much under Labour?

[Ridgewalk]

shes used worse language than that

 

 

 

She's not on here you are. By all accounts she's been subject to lots of racial and gender abuse. She's also very visible which increases her vulnerability, you're anonymous behind your keyboard

[Anna B]

The debt can't decrease until we no longer have a deficit but have a surplus instead, which presumably can then start paying down the actual debt.

 

The debt was therefore going to grow until the deficit was tackled. The increase in debt is therefore nothing to do with Conservative policies, but a consequence of having a large deficit, which they have reduced.

 

I'm sure you are not suggesting that the debt would have not grown as much under Labour?

 

Probably. Yet it's apparently OK to say Labour caused the debt, and repeat it endlessly, when you know as well as I do that it would have been pretty much the same under the Conservatives.

[Robin-H]

Probably. Yet it's apparently OK to say Labour caused the debt, and repeat it endlessly, when you know as well as I do that it would have been pretty much the same under the Conservatives.

 

That might be true. A large proportion of the debt, according to the IMF, is due to 'accommodated revenue loss' which are revenue losses associated with output losses from the financial crisis. These losses were magnified by the fact that during the boom years the government did not make banks create a bailout fund in case the market turned (which it did) but I don't think that anyone is of the belief that the Conservatives would have ensured such a thing either.

 

It is however also true that the Labour party did increase government spending, which added to the burden. The incoming Labour government in 1997 initially stuck to the spending plans of the Conservative Government, which were prudent, and they managed to record a very small surplus in 2001. They however loosened fiscal policy in 2002 and annual borrowing reached £20 billion (by 2002).

[Obelix]

Probably. Yet it's apparently OK to say Labour caused the debt, and repeat it endlessly, when you know as well as I do that it would have been pretty much the same under the Conservatives.

 

Remember this?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8688470.stm

 

LAbout didnt use it's surplus years to mend the roof and build a fund for the inevitable rainy day. It peed it up the wall creating non jobs and buying votes in the public sector to stay in power.

 

If the Conservatives had been in power we might have still had some gold reserves, we wouldnt have spaffed all the money on pointless stuff and we could actually have spent our way our of the recession.

 

Labour made sure we couldnt do that.