The end of the Labour party

[phil752]

You ever notice how the same poster comes back every two months with a new username?

 

who is that then

 

---------- Post added 05-03-2017 at 20:16 ----------

 

I liked Tony Benn. A lot. I don't like Corbyn and I especially don't like McDonnell. I hold them responsible for the threats and intimidation by Momentum &c against the more moderate Labour voices, most notable Angela Eagle. I don't like Eagle either, but nobody deserves that kind of treatment.

The media often write with an axe to grind, for certain. But Corbyn is a born loser and McDonnell is bad news on every possible level. Abbot's fine most of the time, although somewhat lacking in moral courage and as far as I'm concerned wrong about most things.

Corbyn is essentially the anti-Trump. The thing people don't understand about anti-matter is that it is not an opposite. It is identical to the matching matter in almost every way but with a striking difference in a couple of properties. Kind of like a reflection. This is what Corbyn is to Trump. Shouting at the media, ranting nonsense at anybody who will listen and crippling the normal democratic process as they go.

This is a feature of democracy. The nutters get on the big table from time to time. But it soon passes.

 

What i have seen of Corbyn he shys away from the press more like a rabbit in the head lights, he always seems to have to have prepared rhetoric to accepting crowds, i liked, tony Benn too although i feel is son would have him spinning in his grave

Edited March 5, 2017 by phil752

[unbeliever]

 

What i have seen of Corbyn he shys away from the press more like a rabbit in the head lights, he always seems to have to have prepared rhetoric to accepting crowds, i liked, tony Benn too although i feel is son would have him spinning in his grave

 

I kind of like Hilary too. I think Tony would (and probably did) respect his right to differ as long as it's genuine and he acts with honour.

 

---------- Post added 05-03-2017 at 20:37 ----------

 

‪

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/05/jeremy-corbyn-facing-questions-tax-return-amid-claims-failed

 

If this is true, given what Corbyn and Lsbour have said about tax avoidance, it could be the end of him.

Second time he's plublished a light tax return. At least this year it was on time.

Edited March 5, 2017 by unbeliever

[phil752]

Its a shame you did not read the previous post about Corbyn, and you just might understand where and why he exists at all. For years we have not had anyone with real principles but its ideology through celebrity personality, having opinions.

 

.Corbyn is no celebrity personality, no showman, like Blair, or Cameron but unlike them he has principles, real beliefs, and a passion for helping ordinary people. He dares speak for ordinary people, and not promoting himself as the personality, more the messenger with an important message.

 

Obviously people want an inspirational liar, cheat and general <removed>, which is what we have been accustomed to and expect, making Corbyn seem dull, and as some say a looser.

 

As someone else stated Trump and Corbyn are sort of similar, apart from the money, and power, as they are both in an almost identical situation. They have the biggest, most powerful enemies civilisation has created, corporate interests, the fourth estate which is the press, the financial Industry, and let us not forget the security industry or the deep state, that is more powerful than any leader, or government.

 

Can anyone remember just one piece of news about Corbyn that was half positive as in free of vitriol? None exists. Firstly is was media and press saturation vilification, a relentless everyday bitter, nasty, spiteful tirade, until after the second leadership victory. Since then he is mainly been ignored by the media and press and he is only interviewed in order to try an humiliate him. The media are not interested in anything he has to say, which has to be put down for public amusement. So much for balance.

 

Our democracy and the so called democratic process is a sham, if not insulting, where politicians and their puppet masters decide what is good for us all. This was long before the 2008 crash, in which the banks have successfully screwed us all and created the gradual withdrawal of all public funding for all public services.

 

So as far as an honest politician comes, sadly Corbyn is the last hope people have to save them from inevitable total corporate rule, where profit comes before people, in case you did not know. He is most uninspiring in the celebrity field, no Blair, or Cameron, he is no-ones flunky, he cannot be bought, bribed, or presented with honours, he is too wise and far too old for that malarkey. Corbyn is just a plain ordinary person, who through no desire for fame, or status was elected as I stated in my first post, by people who wanted a someone, anyone to represent them.

 

So everyone will have to decide one day soon, whether to trust someone with principles who cares for the ordinary people or career politicians who care just for themselves, for power, for glory, and the money. Blair has shown career politicians can make a fortune when being a puppet. Corbyn is not my idea of a hero, or a charismatic leader, but as the cheats, liars, overpaid, expense grabbing selfish con artists, who give with one hand and take more with the other, while pretending to be honest, its not really a choice is it?

 

The next election, where people will be voting for continued corruption though charismatic liars or an ordinary uninspiring bloke who has the people’s interests at heart. I think if he won he would be killed off anyhow, as the ideology is profit not people and no one is allowed to change that. Will the turkeys vote for Christmas, economic incarceration not just for this generation but future ones, as this will be the usual corporate sugared message? Will they vote for corporate, crap wages, high food and bills, thus poverty and hardship for all. Or maybe a lowering of expectations but a fairer, and more caring country? Will selfishness or the common good win? I personally think the corporations will finalise their grip on every existing social amenity, making the Orwellian future seem like pipe dream by comparison. The choice is between enslavement sold by slick marketing or an ordinary bloke doing what his passions lead him to think is right, and fair. Ideology or principles!

 

For a career politician why does he not engage with the media?

Edited March 6, 2017 by Groose
fixed tags and masked swearing

[unbeliever]

Its a shame you did not read the previous post about Corbyn, and you just might understand where and why he exists at all. For years we have not had anyone with real principles but its ideology through celebrity personality, having opinions.

 

.Corbyn is no celebrity personality, no showman, like Blair, or Cameron but unlike them he has principles, real beliefs, and a passion for helping ordinary people. He dares speak for ordinary people, and not promoting himself as the personality, more the messenger with an important message.

 

Obviously people want an inspirational liar, cheat and general <removed> which is what we have been accustomed to and expect, making Corbyn seem dull, and as some say a looser.

 

As someone else stated Trump and Corbyn are sort of similar, apart from the money, and power, as they are both in an almost identical situation. They have the biggest, most powerful enemies civilisation has created, corporate interests, the fourth estate which is the press, the financial Industry, and let us not forget the security industry or the deep state, that is more powerful than any leader, or government.

 

Can anyone remember just one piece of news about Corbyn that was half positive as in free of vitriol? None exists. Firstly is was media and press saturation vilification, a relentless everyday bitter, nasty, spiteful tirade, until after the second leadership victory. Since then he is mainly been ignored by the media and press and he is only interviewed in order to try an humiliate him. The media are not interested in anything he has to say, which has to be put down for public amusement. So much for balance.

 

Our democracy and the so called democratic process is a sham, if not insulting, where politicians and their puppet masters decide what is good for us all. This was long before the 2008 crash, in which the banks have successfully screwed us all and created the gradual withdrawal of all public funding for all public services.

 

So as far as an honest politician comes, sadly Corbyn is the last hope people have to save them from inevitable total corporate rule, where profit comes before people, in case you did not know. He is most uninspiring in the celebrity field, no Blair, or Cameron, he is no-ones flunky, he cannot be bought, bribed, or presented with honours, he is too wise and far too old for that malarkey. Corbyn is just a plain ordinary person, who through no desire for fame, or status was elected as I stated in my first post, by people who wanted a someone, anyone to represent them.

 

So everyone will have to decide one day soon, whether to trust someone with principles who cares for the ordinary people or career politicians who care just for themselves, for power, for glory, and the money. Blair has shown career politicians can make a fortune when being a puppet. Corbyn is not my idea of a hero, or a charismatic leader, but as the cheats, liars, overpaid, expense grabbing selfish con artists, who give with one hand and take more with the other, while pretending to be honest, its not really a choice is it?

 

The next election, where people will be voting for continued corruption though charismatic liars or an ordinary uninspiring bloke who has the people’s interests at heart. I think if he won he would be killed off anyhow, as the ideology is profit not people and no one is allowed to change that. Will the turkeys vote for Christmas, economic incarceration not just for this generation but future ones, as this will be the usual corporate sugared message? Will they vote for corporate, crap wages, high food and bills, thus poverty and hardship for all. Or maybe a lowering of expectations but a fairer, and more caring country? Will selfishness or the common good win? I personally think the corporations will finalise their grip on every existing social amenity, making the Orwellian future seem like pipe dream by comparison. The choice is between enslavement sold by slick marketing or an ordinary bloke doing what his passions lead him to think is right, and fair. Ideology or principles!

 

 

I understand completely what you say. Your opinions are here for all to read.

It's not all nonsense. A couple of the simple statements have some truth in them.

Corbyn is a career politician. He's never done anything else in his entire adult life. His platform is not new, even if it seems new to you. It's failed 1970s communist bovine excrement. He's found a niche in the political scene and got himself the position of leader of the opposition.

For those less blinkered in their view of the world he's nothing special or new and they're not fooled for a moment. They'll never vote for him. He's peaked with leader of the opposition.

 

This bleating about the unfairness of the system and the press, like Donald Trump, is typical of a sore loser in the field of professional politics. It shows he can't cope with the political process in practise.

You've fallen for a couple of very old and crude political scan tactics.

1. All professional politicians suck, except me I'm the exception.

2. The media are out to get me, therefore all independent views and analysis are invalid, listen only to me.

 

It's exactly the same thing that the USA just fell for in the presidential election.

The policy platform is different, but that in this approach it's rather arbitrary. He could trying to reestablish feudalism and you'd hardly notice the difference.

Edited March 6, 2017 by unbeliever

[unbeliever]

 

What you say is true, but you forget the vilification against Corbyn started as soon as he won the leadership the first time round, as the concept of considering the people of this country as opposed to the money, the corporate sector, is unimaginable and unacceptable. Why have we had 3 million people immigrating into the UK what is the purpose? To keep wages down. Why train doctors and nurses and others which is expensive when you can get them off the shelf? It about profit not people, and just look at the under general funding, while the government showers money in corporate friends. Or did I miss something and the UK's booming economy is making all prosperous, and food banks are where people store their food for a rainy day?

 

If you are old, ill, sick, poor, unemployed, disabled, then the right thing to do is to encourage premature death. What do you think the now rebranded Liverpool Care Program was about? Care? When trusts were being paid for extermination policies that provided for some over half a billion in extra funding??????

 

It all about profit not people, and anyway you might ask why should I care as it happens to others, but you see I might get ill, might get old unlike so many that appear immune to such possibilities. The I'm all right Jack sod you...looser is soooo Thatcherite, soooo modern, soooo superior/elitist.

 

 

As for the question why Corbyn not engaging with the media, well you should have read my previous posts when I spelt it out mate!

 

I'm going to ignore the somewhat ridiculous allegations you've made unless and until you can provide actual evidence for them.

 

Your motives are largely the same as everybody else's. You're not special in that respect. Compassion and empathy are everywhere.

The question is not whether to help people but how to help them.

 

The prompt criticism of Corbyn was based on his record. He's been a professional politician for decades.

Refusing to engage with a free press is a scam to control the narrative. The same one Trump is using.

[sgtkate]

this is so deluded, it's funny. Anna seems to be trying to make out here that 'the Tories' withdrew the Endurance and other vessels from the South Atlantic in this vague hope that the Argentines might invade, enabling the government to assemble a Task Force to re-take the islands and thus enable the Tories to win the election.

 

but the Tories would have won the 1983 election anyway regardless of the Falklands. They'd recovered in the polls by the spring of 1982, and the economy was turning round. Thatcher was already beginning to get quite popular prior to the Falklands, which definitely helped but ultimately made no difference. The Tories would have won the 1983 election handily regardless of the Falklands.

 

Labour had a leader then, who was nearly, but not quite, as much of an un-electable total joke as the current one Corbyn is and they had no chance in that election with the SDP/Alliance taking a quarter of the total, splitting the anti-Tory vote. The Tory vote FELL between 1979 and 1983 - 700,000 less people voted for them - but because the opposition was split they greatly increased their number of seats in parliament.

 

the so-called 'Falklands Factor' and the 1983 election is a leftist political myth, like 'The Sun Wot Won It' is for the 1992 election which is not true either. Thoughts of the election had no bearing at all on any of the decisions taken during the time of the Falklands war, and nobody has ever been able to find any specific references or recollections by anybody, that the election, due by 1984, was discussed in any detail at all. When the writer of the 'Falklands Play', Ian Curtis, was pressured by BBC people into including such references into the drama, he flatly refused saying that there was no evidence that any such discussions had taken place.

 

talking about the 1983 election's split left-of-centre vote, from some of her other posts, Anna seems to be suffering from the curious delusion that the UK is becoming more left-wing.

 

this is totally wrong, because in the 2015 election, for the first time ever, over 50% of the voters voted for right of centre candidates, Tory and UKIP ones. All through the 1970s and 80s, all the way through the Thatcher era, more people voted for left of centre candidates than right of centre ones. In 2015, that all changed, and that is one of the reasons why I am sure 2015 will go down as a historic re-aligning election. It showed that Britain is just not the left of centre country any more that it had previously been, and that even Ed Miliband was far too left-wing to have a chance of winning.

 

How stupid of Labour, when having received clear evidence from the election in 2015 that people were no longer as left-wing as they previously were, to choose the most left-wing candidate, Corbyn, that they possibly could.

 

Your OTT response to what was a joke is funny.

[the_bloke]

Reports are coming out that Corbyn has managed to bugger up his tax return again.

[unbeliever]

Reports are coming out that Corbyn has managed to bugger up his tax return again.

 

Ahem. .

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/05/jeremy-corbyn-facing-questions-tax-return-amid-claims-failed

 

If this is true, given what Corbyn and Lsbour have said about tax avoidance, it could be the end of him.

Second time he's plublished a light tax return. At least this year it was on time.

[sgtkate]

Reports are coming out that Corbyn has managed to bugger up his tax return again.

 

Yup. I've been such a supporter of his for his ideas and integrity, but a politician has to be competent first and foremost and sadly no-one can blame media spin and bad coverage for this. How can you mess up a tax return AGAIN? Surely he can get an accountant to check it over before making an utter fool of himself? I think he needs to go, but I am genuinely saddened by this.

[Obelix]

Reports are coming out that Corbyn has managed to bugger up his tax return again.

 

How?

 

I had a quick look at it being as it's sort of my field.

 

He's got is base salary in correct. It doesn't have his extra salary as Leader of the opposition there, For some reason he has that in the bonus section - that's, odd, but not actually incorrect you can declare it there if you wish.

 

It only shows about half of what the years bonus is, but then again for the time period he was only in as opposition leader for about six months so the numbers look right.

 

Compared to his last effort it doesn't look like there is anything wrong with this one.

 

---------- Post added 06-03-2017 at 10:29 ----------

 

Yup. I've been such a supporter of his for his ideas and integrity, but a politician has to be competent first and foremost and sadly no-one can blame media spin and bad coverage for this. How can you mess up a tax return AGAIN? Surely he can get an accountant to check it over before making an utter fool of himself? I think he needs to go, but I am genuinely saddened by this.

 

He hasn't - see my analysis above.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Obelix