The end of the Labour party

[Anna B]

Don't mix up economic left/right with authoritariansm... the BNP and UKIP both have a fair few ideas that put them considerably further left than the conservatives, whilst still be a lot more authoritarian.

 

Doesn't this example rather point to the fact that the old ideas of right and left don't really fit anymore?

 

Politics of all colours is undergoing big changes at the moment.

[sgtkate]

Doesn't this example rather point to the fact that the old ideas of right and left don't really fit anymore?

 

Politics of all colours is undergoing big changes at the moment.

 

No. It's just that people consistently cannot get their head around left and right being economic policies (mostly) and libertarian and authoritarian being control policies.

 

https://www.politicalcompass.org/

 

So authoritarian left would be communism

Authoritarian right is neo-conservatism

 

 

Liberal left and right as hard to find within governments or parties that are non-extremist as they almost want to remove themselves.

 

I'd say the Green party are about as far liberal left as you go, and liberal right would be erm...I really can't think of any to be honest...anyone?

[Hairyloon]

for starters

 

Carry on. And some might suggest that it is not quite proper to lump UKIP and the BNP together like this: I am reasonably sure they are not the same.

[unbeliever]

No. It's just that people consistently cannot get their head around left and right being economic policies (mostly) and libertarian and authoritarian being control policies.

 

https://www.politicalcompass.org/

 

So authoritarian left would be communism

Authoritarian right is neo-conservatism

 

 

Liberal left and right as hard to find within governments or parties that are non-extremist as they almost want to remove themselves.

 

I'd say the Green party are about as far liberal left as you go, and liberal right would be erm...I really can't think of any to be honest...anyone?

 

 

You think the Greens are for small government?

At least half of the Conservative parliamentary party are classical liberals.

[Obelix]

No. It's just that people consistently cannot get their head around left and right being economic policies (mostly) and libertarian and authoritarian being control policies.

 

https://www.politicalcompass.org/

 

So authoritarian left would be communism

Authoritarian right is neo-conservatism

 

 

Liberal left and right as hard to find within governments or parties that are non-extremist as they almost want to remove themselves.

 

I'd say the Green party are about as far liberal left as you go, and liberal right would be erm...I really can't think of any to be honest...anyone?

 

That would be the Conservatives.

[sgtkate]

Carry on. And some might suggest that it is not quite proper to lump UKIP and the BNP together like this: I am reasonably sure they are not the same.

 

I didn't. I was solely referring to the BNP. UKIP have no left wing policies I can think of.

 

---------- Post added 10-03-2017 at 14:51 ----------

 

That would be the Conservatives.

 

Are you kidding me? You think the Tories are liberals! That's the best laugh of the day!

 

---------- Post added 10-03-2017 at 14:51 ----------

 

You think the Greens are for small government?

At least half of the Conservative parliamentary party are classical liberals.

 

Liberal doesn't only mean small government as well you know.

[unbeliever]

I didn't. I was solely referring to the BNP. UKIP have no left wing policies I can think of.

 

---------- Post added 10-03-2017 at 14:51 ----------

 

 

Are you kidding me? You think the Tories are liberals! That's the best laugh of the day!

 

---------- Post added 10-03-2017 at 14:51 ----------

 

 

Liberal doesn't only mean small government as well you know.

 

 

The Conservatives introduced gay marriage.

And the Conservatives are the only ones pushing back against the idea that every problem should be solved by making yet more thing illegal.

They also tend toward lower taxes which gives us the freedom to make our own choices.

 

So what does liberal mean to you?

[Hairyloon]

I didn't. I was solely referring to the BNP. UKIP have no left wing policies I can think of.

Ah, sorry my mistake: it was the previous poster did the lumping.

 

In which case you are quite right: if memory serves, according to Politicalcompas.org the BNP are slightly to the left of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei.

[Obelix]

Are you kidding me? You think the Tories are liberals! That's the best laugh of the day!

 

Thatcher was closer to a Liberal than you think. Don't mix up Liberals with LibDems..... The Conservatives generally speaking are considered to be a right wing (economicaly) liberal party.

[sgtkate]

The Conservatives introduced gay marriage.

And the Conservatives are the only ones pushing back against the idea that every problem should be solved by making yet more thing illegal.

They also tend toward lower taxes which gives us the freedom to make our own choices.

 

So what does liberal mean to you?

 

A mixed bag of things, but on a social level very much minimal interference whilst protecting people and on a government level as little interference as well as is needed to achieve aim 1. For me it's much more about social freedom than government ones. The Tories legalised gay marriage because it was the 'right' time socially to do it. Labour or anyone bar UKIP would have done the same if they'd been elected. I'm not taking anything away from them for doing so and TBH I was slightly surprised they did as history the Tories are more linked to the church than other parties.

 

I've not said Labour are liberal, they are far from it, but the Greens most definitely are. They most definitely do want a smaller, lower cost government (we aren't talking welfare state here), in fact the only area I'd say the Greens are even vaguely authoritarian on are environmental policies.