Do the French have control of their own borders?

[Cyclone]

Is France not a safe country?

 

I think so, that was sort of my point.

 

Tim is correct though, the numbers of refugee's in Calais is not significant, I've no idea why we don't just process them quickly and get it over with.

[biotechpete]

I think so, that was sort of my point.

 

Tim is correct though, the numbers of refugee's in Calais is not significant, I've no idea why we don't just process them quickly and get it over with.

 

It's the notion that allowing those already there to enter will simply encourage others to go there. Then there's no end to the problem.

 

My answer btw is to have a single integrated European refugee and migration system. AFAIK a refugee from France, once granted asylum is free to travel to the UK anyway.

[L00b]

Is France not a safe country?

It certainly is.

 

But that test only has relevance to the topic and the thread so long as the UK is (still) an EU member state, since the safe country is a relatively recent concept that was formally embedded in the (EU) Dublin Reg provisions, and has no basis in the legal 'bedrock' that is the 1951 Refugee Convention (many argue that the safe country concept actually goes against the spirit and letter of the Convention).

I've no idea why we don't just process them quickly and get it over with.

I suggest you research the hows and whys of the (successive) iterations of the Jungle for the past 20+ odd years

 

Illegals don't just hang around to be caught, registered and processed: they know their chances of making it to the UK if they were, would be very significantly impaired. Beyond that, the contingent of illegals trying to get to the UK and stopping over in Calais is continually 'topped up' by new arrivals. Raze the place to the ground, it's back up a short way away within a month, et bis repetita.

My answer btw is to have a single integrated European refugee and migration system. AFAIK a refugee from France, once granted asylum is free to travel to the UK anyway.

Nope, still need a visa: a refugee granted leave to remain is not granted EU citizenship. They'd still need a tourist or work visa to enter the UK. Edited August 30, 2016 by L00b

[biotechpete]

It's the notion that allowing those already there to enter will simply encourage others to go there. Then there's no end to the problem.

 

My answer btw is to have a single integrated European refugee and migration system. AFAIK a refugee from France, once granted asylum is free to travel to the UK anyway.

 

Actually, I checked, they can't travel freely

[tzijlstra]

It's the notion that allowing those already there to enter will simply encourage others to go there. Then there's no end to the problem.

 

My answer btw is to have a single integrated European refugee and migration system. AFAIK a refugee from France, once grated asylum is free to travel to the UK anyway.

 

On your point re. a European refugee and migration system, 100% agreed, there is an informal one in place already, but it should be stronger. The UK should, even if it does leave the EU, be a part of that and indeed accept its fair share of legal refugees.

 

Re. allowing those that are in Calais in - they need to be processed, the UK has a responsibility there, get them in, get them processed, fair application, stay, wrongful application, back.

 

The big issue, in my opinion, is that the Syrian refugee wave has also exacerbated migration from the sub-Sahara, I suspect a significant number of those are indeed the people in Calais, they have British roots (empire) and are therefore intend on coming here for a better life.

 

Stopping that from happening by processing and setting clear delineations on who can and can not come in (as far as I am concerned extremely strict) will deter others from coming. If potential refugees see their friends return after a year, or however long it takes, telling them of how horrible the journey and ordeal was will do more for this issue than having people sit in a makeshift camp in Calais.

[BHRemovals]

The reason most of these migrants want to come here, is not that fact that it is some sort of immigrants paradise, it is the fact that the uk boarder agency is virtually non existant and it is much easier to disappear into the black economy, as compared to france, Germany, Holland etc.

[Cyclone]

It certainly is.

 

But that test only has relevance to the topic and the thread so long as the UK is (still) an EU member state, since the safe country is a relatively recent concept that was formally embedded in the (EU) Dublin Reg provisions, and has no basis in the legal 'bedrock' that is the 1951 Refugee Convention (many argue that the safe country concept actually goes against the spirit and letter of the Convention).

I suggest you research the hows and whys of the (successive) iterations of the Jungle for the past 20+ odd years

 

Illegals don't just hang around to be caught, registered and processed: they know their chances of making it to the UK if they were, would be very significantly impaired.

I mean processed as refugee's to the UK.

They would have achieved their aim, unless they intend all along to become illegal immigrants.

[L00b]

The reason most of these migrants want to come here, is not that fact that it is some sort of immigrants paradise, it is the fact that the uk boarder agency is virtually non existant

I've seen their black 'undercover' vans (blue lights behind grille, no checkers or other hi-vis signage, they also have silver ones, and Border Agency in black stencilled letters on them, but very small) around time and again locally (Sheffield), so at least it does exist

and it is much easier to disappear into the black economy, as compared to france, Germany, Holland etc.

But that is very true. You need ID cards and to empower police to stop and ask to see them, if you want eradicate (most of-) the problem. Like that will ever happen.

[tzijlstra]

The reason most of these migrants want to come here, is not that fact that it is some sort of immigrants paradise, it is the fact that the uk boarder agency is virtually non existant and it is much easier to disappear into the black economy, as compared to france, Germany, Holland etc.

 

I think this is certainly part of the picture. The no-ID principle that exists here is making it a lot easier to disappear. Add the practically non-existent civilian registry, outside of the voters register and it becomes even easier.

[pmurtdlanod1]

Must be nice to live in your monochromatic world.

I suggest that you read up about 'asylum shopping'.

 

You both make it sound so easy to control migrant populations of no fixed abode and indeterminate -when not deliberately masked- (and often as not, plural-) identities

 

You might want to try and hold the UK's Police and Border Forces to the same exacting standards, before you go criticizing those of other countries

 

i dont know about Monochromatic but i do know if we controlled our borders properly with the army if necessary we wouldnt have this migrant problem, if it wasnt so attractive to come here that would be a start?, all those that say they are coming here to work not claim benefits, can they tell us where this work is??? last i looked there were 1.5 million plus unemployed here.

toughen up the borders and paperwork and the problem will be reduced dramatically. the rest of europe let the migrants remain with Germany and france ushering them through to Calais.

tell me why they dont settle in Italy?? or in Spain? why Gt Britain??