El Cid Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Demonising one's opponents in this way is ignorant and childish. You can't engage usefully in the political debate until you accept this. Boris and Gove manage to demonise themselves, Nick Clegg is just adding to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin-H Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Nobody on here. I was using Johnson's experience to elaborate on a wider point. I know, but you are claiming that people think that because Boris Johnson is 'posh' anything bad he does is just accepted as 'high spirits' or the such, whereas if someone from a council estate did it they would be vilified. I am pointing out that I'm not sure that belief really holds true. I don't know of anyone that would think that supposedly posh or rich people can do what they like and that is ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted September 5, 2016 Author Share Posted September 5, 2016 We've been through this so many times before. The progressives/liberals/socialists/left or whatever you want to call them do not have a monopoly on conscience or morality. That's just their delusion. Demonising one's opponents in this way is ignorant and childish. You can't engage usefully in the political debate until you accept this. I come from "left" stock, I work in the public sector. I used to think that the "right" were bad people. Then I grew up. Democracy is designed to channel enlightened self-interest into serving the greater good. It works to an extent. All our politicians are a mixture of pragmatism and idealism. Some more than others. I see no indication that this is a specifically Conservative trait. The real political debate is not about whether to enact policy to serve the greater good, but about which policy does in fact best serve the greater good. The greatest mistake one can make in political debate is to imagine that things are simple. I don't think anyone party has the monopoly on any virtue. No do I see the political 'right' as bad people. Nor is the public sector the stock of the left, or the private sector the stock of the right. That's often how it's presented in the news, to pigeon hole people & simplify things....In my OP, I quoted the example of Clegg's admission that Osborne believed that building social housing for people was a petri dish to somehow create more Labour voters. Not true at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 What? Seriously?Yes. I've still not forgiven him for the Alsatian Pinot Gris (2013 Premier Cru, a rarity round'ere) that I managed to accidentally spit out and inhale at the same time, when I first heard that one on the news, back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Boris and Gove manage to demonise themselves, Nick Clegg is just adding to it No. Not . This is not a situation. Your political opponents are decent people who just disagree with you sometimes as to what policy will best serve the greater good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santo Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 No. Not . This is not a situation. Your political opponents are decent people who just disagree with you sometimes as to what policy will best serve the greater good. That's about right. Anna B claims the establishment hate Corbyn. As much as he hates the establishment no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxman Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 I'm just surprised that Clegg seems so surprised about it all. Did he really think the Tories would be nice to him. The incident of Gove hiding in a toilet in order to avoid the schools minister, David Laws, could come straight from The Thick of It. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 I'm just surprised that Clegg seems so surprised about it all. Did he really think the Tories would be nice to him. The incident of Gove hiding in a toilet in order to avoid the schools minister, David Laws, could come straight from The Thick of It. I can't get excited over this. It's petty office gossip dressed up as something important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Arctor Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 No. Not . This is not a situation. Your political opponents are decent people who just disagree with you sometimes as to what policy will best serve the greater good. This is an insanely rosy view. Surely building lots of social housing would be in the greater good; construction jobs created in building them, freeing up income for millions of households who would be paying a lower proportion of their wages in rent, thus creating economic stimulus, less overcrowding which is beneficial to all concerned, especially children, it would reduce the housing benefit bill which is beneficial to all, and would reduce homelessness. A small number of buy to let landlords would do badly out of it. And Osborne and Cameron rejected it because it would not have served the political interests of their party. That has nowt to do with governing for the greater good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 No. Not . This is not a situation. Your political opponents are decent people who just disagree with you sometimes as to what policy will best serve the greater good. Would you extend that viewpoint to someone like say Oswald Moseley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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