Tories to bring back Grammar schools

[Justin Smith]

I have been googling, and the first result was that grammar schools perform better

 

I compared 10 schools at random from Leeds and Lincolnshire.

 

If at first you dont succeed

 

But most kids don`t get into a Grammar school do they ? Thus I`m shocked that most parents of kids support the idea of Grammar schools. AS I said, they must have a very tenuous grasp of mathematics, or a totally inaccurate estimation of their kids abilities. But, then again, some would say the latter is perfectly natural, thus explaining why there appears to be more support for Grammars then logic dictates that their should be.

 

---------- Post added 09-09-2016 at 18:51 ----------

 

No. The "majority of the country" does not want the return of secondary modern schools.

 

(Which is the same thing)

 

Absolutely.......

[Santo]

Two things you seem to have missed.

 

1 - It doesn`t matter if all the kids who enter an 11+ in any area are clever enough to pass it, only a set percentage will be passed, the rest, a majority, will "fail".

 

2 - Kids with differing academic abilities and attitudes to learning are already separated, it`s called streaming. But the crucial difference is there can be movement between the classes, and, critically, kids can be in different stream for different subjects. No child is officially "a failure" at 11. Eleven for Gawd`s sake. I`m shocked there are so many who seem to think that`s perfectly acceptable. My brother may well have failed the 11+, he wasn`t academically gifted at 11, but he stuck at it, worked very hard, and via resits of both O levels and A levels proceeded via an HND to a degree course, which he passed. I would postulate that would never have happened had he been sidelined into a Secondary Modern. Plus there would have been a very significant negative effect on his self confidence had his brother and sister both passed the 11+ and gone to a Grammar, he failed it and was sent to a Secondary Modern.

 

My red:

 

That probably happened all the time. The law of averages. Not everyone is intelligent.

 

Life's a bitch. Now unless his parents show him any less love why would his self confidence be damaged? After all he will be at a school where everyone else failed the 11 plus no? He's not a freak or unusual and he is probably very aware that his brother and sister are 'cleverer' than he is. Kids aren't stupid!

Edited September 9, 2016 by Santo

[Robin-H]

No. The "majority of the country" does not want the return of secondary modern schools.

 

(Which is the same thing)

 

They will be pleased that Theresa May said that there will not be a return of secondary modern schools then.

[biotechpete]

Any evidence at all?

 

Perhaps there are countries that are performing well with grammar schools/selection?

 

As 'evidence', there are 'secondary modern' schools in Bucks which out perform most comprehensives in the country. Of course one could argue that affluence has something to do with that. Trafford has a grammar system, I haven't looked at the results in detail. I'm told the schools there are generally better than in my non-selective borough of Stockport.

[Bob Arctor]

Under the proposals it say..

 

'Every new grammar school will be required to establish a "new, high quality non-selective school". They will be required to sponsor an under-performing academy school.'

 

Surely this will improve education across the board. Why are you opposed to that?

 

But the main defining characteristic of a grammar school is that it is selective. A non-selective grammar school is surely an oxymoron?

[Santo]

But the main defining characteristic of a grammar school is that it is selective. A non-selective grammar school is surely an oxymoron?

 

That's why it doesn't say non-selective grammar school. It says non-selective school.

 

'Every new grammar school will be required to establish a "new, high quality non-selective school". They will be required to sponsor an under-performing academy school.'

[Bob Arctor]

That's why it doesn't say non-selective grammar school. It says non-selective school.

 

'Every new grammar school will be required to establish a "new, high quality non-selective school". They will be required to sponsor an under-performing academy school.'

 

So are they saying the grammars have to establish an additional non-selective school?

[Santo]

So are they saying the grammars have to establish an additional non-selective school?

 

I'm not entirely sure. Robin might know.....

[Bob Arctor]

I'm not entirely sure. Robin might know.....

 

Because a non-selective grammar school is a comprehensive school as I'm sure you understand.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Bob Arctor

[El Cid]

As 'evidence', there are 'secondary modern' schools in Bucks which out perform most comprehensives in the country. Of course one could argue that affluence has something to do with that. Trafford has a grammar system, I haven't looked at the results in detail. I'm told the schools there are generally better than in my non-selective borough of Stockport.

 

Very difficult to compare.

 

Scotland(no grammar schools) has slightly better schools than England, despite England still having many grammar schools; but Wales does poorly and has no grammar schools.