Tories to bring back Grammar schools

[I1L2T3]

Nope. Why would I assume that?

 

You said that people would have to travel further to get to good schools instead of the less good schools in their localities. Presumably the less good schools are in less affluent areas?

 

It's entirely reasonable to infer that from your post, even though you probably didn't realise you were touching on a critical point: the probable location of the new grammar schools.

[Santo]

Thanks for your last comment, I have to say I find being personal on forums tends to be a bad move.

 

The traffic issue is obviously minor compared to a child`s education, but bearing in mind most major cities are close to gridlock at the present time it can`t be considered a minor point in the whole. I would suggest that to those without kids, whose priorities are somewhat different, it is anything but a minor point. Your assumption that all these kids will get the bus is, I would think, a tad optimistic.

 

I do mention house prices falling, again that is a minor point compared to one`s child`s education, but to those without kids it is most certainly not a minor point. We`re talking tens of thousands of pounds here.

 

Unintended consequences ? A bit like another recent socio political earthquake.......

 

You mention it because you say it will give you schadenfreude. Meaning it will give you personal pleasure. Who made it personal if not you?

 

By the way, one of the richest parts of the country outside the South is Hallam. Last time I looked they had a Lib Dem MP, not a Tory.

 

But yeah, you keep hating the Tories and their voters. I'd say that is a worse move. Makes you look like a typical clueless whinging clown. Righteous indignation at any Tory policy due to undeserved loyalty to another party is so very, very boring.

 

(I voted Remain and I don't vote Tory myself, if you care)

Edited September 10, 2016 by Santo

[Justin Smith]

Populist? The plan isn't entirely popular. Justin Smith is flabbergasted that about half the public want them [Grammar schools] .

 

Technically, I explained that I`m absolutely flabbergasted that more than half of parents with kids want them. As I`ve stated a number of times they can`t be thinking rationally, or they have have unrealistic ideas of their kids abilities. I find it interesting nobody has explained this inexplicable (to me) point.

 

---------- Post added 10-09-2016 at 13:58 ----------

 

You mention it because you say it will give you schadenfreude. Meaning it will give you personal pleasure. Who made it personal if not you?

 

By the way, one of the richest parts of the country outside the South is Hallam. Last time I looked they had a Lib Dem MP, not a Tory.

 

But yeah, you keep hating the Tories and their voters.

 

My definition of being personal on a forum is a direct insult to a particular person, as opposed to a criticism (however harsh) of a group of people holding a particular view. I don`t believe I`ve done the former, if I have I apologise unreservedly to the poster involved.

 

---------- Post added 10-09-2016 at 14:02 ----------

 

You said that people would have to travel further to get to good schools instead of the less good schools in their localities. Presumably the less good schools are in less affluent areas?

 

It's entirely reasonable to infer that from your post, even though you probably didn't realise you were touching on a critical point: the probable location of the new grammar schools.

 

I would think the better schools at present would be more likely to become Grammar schools if this whole nightmare kicks off. I`d expect that many may not want to become Grammars, but once one starts then it`s inevitable more will follow, which will almost force the others to follow suit because if they don`t they`ll end up as de facto Secondary Moderns. Oh sorry they`re not supposed to be SMs because May has said so. They`re to be called something else which, of course, will make all the difference. How stupid of me, a slip of the tongue (so to speak), please forgive me.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Justin Smith

[Santo]

You said that people would have to travel further to get to good schools instead of the less good schools in their localities. Presumably the less good schools are in less affluent areas?

 

It's entirely reasonable to infer that from your post, even though you probably didn't realise you were touching on a critical point: the probable location of the new grammar schools.

 

Did I? Where?

 

I said IF they have to travel to a better school because the local school is crap it's hardly the end of the world. I made no comment on the area each school is located in.

 

The idea that grammar schools are only in good areas has been discussed by The Bloke earlier in the thread.

 

Assume what you want. I haven't made that claim nor do I think it would be fair.

[I1L2T3]

Technically, I explained that I`m absolutely flabbergasted that more than half parents with kids want them. As I`ve stated a number of times they can`t be thinking rationally, or have unrealistic ideas of their kids abilities. I find it interesting nobody has explained this inexplicable (to me) point.

 

53% want grammars. Only 20% of kids will get in to them if the system becomes as extensive as before.

 

That is going to mean a lot of extremely upset parents.

 

The unrealistic expectations are most likely an extension of our aspirational society. You can be aspirational for a certain lifestyle and achieve by punching above your true weight off the back of private debt. Maybe the image you want to project includes being the parents of brainy kids who get into good schools.

 

You could try and make your kids brain 'work better' by getting some more debt and getting them tutored but....

 

Only 20% of kids will get in to grammars if the system becomes as extensive as before.

 

That is going to mean a lot of extremely upset parents.

 

---------- Post added 10-09-2016 at 14:06 ----------

 

Did I? Where?

 

I said IF they have to travel to a better school because the local school is crap it's hardly the end of the world. I made no comment on the area each school is located in.

 

The idea that grammar schools are only in good areas has been discussed by The Bloke earlier in the thread.

 

Assume what you want. I haven't made that claim nor do I think it would be fair.

 

Then why can't the grammar schools be in the less affluent areas?

[El Cid]

You said that people would have to travel further to get to good schools instead of the less good schools in their localities. Presumably the less good schools are in less affluent areas?

 

It's entirely reasonable to infer that from your post, even though you probably didn't realise you were touching on a critical point: the probable location of the new grammar schools.

 

The main priority in the admissions policy at the moment is special educational needs, children in care, siblings and then proximity to the school.

 

I assume the first two priorities would override the 11+ exam, siblings and proximity will be no longer valid.

[Santo]

Technically, I explained that I`m absolutely flabbergasted that more than half of parents with kids want them. As I`ve stated a number of times they can`t be thinking rationally, or they have have unrealistic ideas of their kids abilities. I find it interesting nobody has explained this inexplicable (to me) point.

 

---------- Post added 10-09-2016 at 13:58 ----------

 

 

My definition of being personal on a forum is a direct insult to a particular person, as opposed to a criticism (however harsh) of a group of people holding a particular view. I don`t believe I`ve done the former, if I have I apologise unreservedly to the poster involved.

 

---------- Post added 10-09-2016 at 14:02 ----------

 

 

I would think the better schools at present would be more likely to become Grammar schools if this whole nightmare kicks off. I`d expect that many may not want to become Grammars, but once one starts then it`s inevitable more will follow, which will almost force the others to follow suit because if they don`t they`ll end up as de facto Secondary Moderns. Oh sorry they`re not supposed to be SMs because May has said so. They`re to be called something else which, of course, will make all the difference. How stupid of me, a slip of the tongue (so to speak), please forgive me.

 

I said I lost respect for your opinion. You obviously don't respect those that vote Tory, it's clear, you will be happy if their houses lose value. That's why I don't respect your opinion. Your debate is not empirical. It's based on your loathing of all things Tory.

 

Feel free to feel slighted and insulted. I said I don't respect your opinion. That's not an insult it's a statement of fact based on your Tory Equals Bad Citizen Smith politics.

 

---------- Post added 10-09-2016 at 14:14 ----------

 

53% want grammars. Only 20% of kids will get in to them if the system becomes as extensive as before.

 

That is going to mean a lot of extremely upset parents.

 

The unrealistic expectations are most likely an extension of our aspirational society. You can be aspirational for a certain lifestyle and achieve by punching above your true weight off the back of private debt. Maybe the image you want to project includes being the parents of brainy kids who get into good schools.

 

You could try and make your kids brain 'work better' by getting some more debt and getting them tutored but....

 

Only 20% of kids will get in to grammars if the system becomes as extensive as before.

 

That is going to mean a lot of extremely upset parents.

 

---------- Post added 10-09-2016 at 14:06 ----------

 

 

Then why can't the grammar schools be in the less affluent areas?

 

Who said they can't or won't be exactly?????

[biotechpete]

This intrigues me, what do you mean by the level you need them to be at?

I'm assuming your a business, are you expecting fully formed employees to emerge from uni or are the graduates really not deserving of the pass rate their getting?

I'm inclined to think that if uni grads aren't what they used to be then somethings changed, and the main things that have changed are fees, cradle to adult education and the cotton wooling of children. +their knock on effects.

 

Is it the actual educational subject knowledge that is lacking or is it a 'flaw' in the graduates ability to realise they need to acquire more than what is spoon fed throughout their schooling?

 

---------- Post added 10-09-2016 at 09:17 ----------

 

 

Contradiction in terms there me love.

 

So we should teach in the method of which generation? The Victorians, the fifties? The 2015 Singapore style?

 

I work in research and teach undergrads and post grads. Mostly I run laboratory projects, but the same problems occur in industry. It is related to spoon feeding. They don't know how to apply what they learn. It's also that they don't learn to the same depth as they used to and are far less independent. It goes back to the 'hard' stuff being stripped out of science syllabuses when AS levels were introduced. They also struggle with planning and carrying out tasks independently. If they are to be any use in a research lab for example. They need to be able to perform tasks they are taught without it taking longer than it would without them being there.

 

In research, but also in business, technologies are moving forward but instead of there being a trickle down effect on teaching, a gap is appearing. University courses are teaching things that should be taught in schools and there is now a gap between the basic knowledge you learn at degree level and the cutting edge science actually happening now, that graduates and post graduates have absolutely no knowledge of.

[I1L2T3]

I said I lost respect for your opinion. You obviously don't respect those that vote Tory, it's clear, you will be happy if their houses lose value. That's why I don't respect your opinion. Your debate is not empirical. It's based on your loathing of all things Tory.

 

Feel free to feel slighted and insulted. I said I don't respect your opinion. That's not an insult it's a statement of fact based on your Tory Equals Bad Citizen Smith politics.

 

---------- Post added 10-09-2016 at 14:14 ----------

 

 

Who said they can't or won't be exactly?????

 

If you think they will be then great but you have to admit the chances are slim. Extremely slim. At some point schools will cut over to being grammars. You know where they'll be located. We could predict a list of Sheffield schools that will convert well in advance and the chances of us being incorrect would be tiny.

[Santo]

If you think they will be then great but you have to admit the chances are slim. Extremely slim. At some point schools will cut over to being grammars. You know where they'll be located. We could predict a list of Sheffield schools that will convert well in advance and the chances of us being incorrect would be tiny.

 

Well, that clearly goes against what I said all along about grammar schools being a good idea on paper but only if they aren't at the expense of those not academically gifted enough to pass the entrance exam.

 

But some, Justin Smith being one, are quick to want the idea crushed before its fully developed. Because it's a Tory idea and they hate the Tories.

 

Zzzzzzzzzzz.