Tories to bring back Grammar schools

[biotechpete]

The problem is kids are branded a failure and their life path is largely decided at 11 (eleven for Gawd`s sake). I`m prepared to accept that those who go to Grammar school may well do slightly better academically, though there are other arguments about a rounded education meeting and interacting with different classes and such. But those who go to Secondary Moderns (the majority) will do significantly worse. So that`s not a bargain I wish to make.

 

---------- Post added 10-09-2016 at 11:24 ----------

 

 

Anyone who tries to say you can have Grammar schools without Secondary Moderns has fallen for political double speak and is not being logical into the bargain.

 

What`s also interesting is this :

I didn't comment on your brother because well, so what?

 

 

The implication that you`re not thinking about this on a personal level of all those kids that are negatively affected by this. Please correct me if I`ve got the wrong end of the stick but that`s the clear implication of what you`ve said.

 

As far as I can tell from the data I posted, there is no evidence of that. The difference is marginal, but the argument for proponents of grammars is that those in secondary moderns get a means of teaching that is better for them and so do better.

 

---------- Post added 10-09-2016 at 15:01 ----------

 

I wouldn't have though a stream within a Comp had a greater range of abilities than an entire Grammar school. Or are saying that Grammar schools are also streamed ?

It`s a while since I was at school (King Ecgbert`s), but I thought my comp had more then three streams, from memory it was 4 or 5 (in the subjects which were streamed).

 

My grammar was streamed in some subjects, it still is as I hear. I felt I was held back in many subjects btw and I'm not particularly bright.

[El Cid]

If you think they will be then great but you have to admit the chances are slim. Extremely slim. At some point schools will cut over to being grammars. You know where they'll be located. We could predict a list of Sheffield schools that will convert well in advance and the chances of us being incorrect would be tiny.

 

I dont think having a grammar school in a area of large populace will be too detrimental; but I think selection excludes pupils from certain schools and is negative.

[biotechpete]

Technically, I explained that I`m absolutely flabbergasted that more than half of parents with kids want them. As I`ve stated a number of times they can`t be thinking rationally, or they have have unrealistic ideas of their kids abilities. I find it interesting nobody has explained this inexplicable (to me)

 

It's the Dunning-Kruger effect.http://timharford.com/2016/09/can-trivia-help-us-to-be-less-ignorant-of-our-own-ignorance/

 

---------- Post added 10-09-2016 at 15:13 ----------

 

Practically all the evidence is solidly against the plans which in reality are dog whistle populist nonsense

 

What is that evidence?

[apelike]

It is interesting that those who champion privilege in any shape or form, and who oppose equality, so often argue that their stance is somehow ideology-neutral, whilst those they oppose are being 'political' or motivated by ideological considerations.

 

As asked before, why is it privilege?

[Staunton]

As asked before, why is it privilege?

 

Perhaps apelike might care to explain the attraction of grammar schools?

[Santo]

Perhaps apelike might care to explain the attraction of grammar schools?

 

Why? It's been done earlier in the thread.

 

It would be more polite if you answered his question first anyway.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Santo

[Staunton]

Why? It's been done earlier in the thread.

 

It would be more polite if you answered his question first anyway.

 

Or perhaps Santo might care to supply us with an answer?

[Santo]

Or perhaps Santo might care to supply us with an answer?

 

Already have.

 

Why don't you answer the question put to you by Ape Like? Or better yet, stop trolling?

[Staunton]

A privilege is an advantage enjoyed by a particular section within a given group. In the case under discussion that means children of school age in the United Kingdom, some of whom would enjoy advantage just as long as grammar schools are granted the opportunity to select who to admit.

 

Selective education is exclusive by definition, it excludes. That the taxpayer should fund privilege is contrary to the principles of equity (i.e. fairness and impartiality).

 

It seems that those who promote grammar schools are simply unwilling to give any meaningful consideration to those excluded by the process of selection that such schools inevitably undertake.

[unbeliever]

A privilege is an advantage enjoyed by a particular section within a given group. In the case under discussion that means children of school age in the United Kingdom, some of whom would enjoy advantage just as long as such schools are granted the opportunity to select who to admit.

 

Selective education is exclusive by definition, it excludes. That the taxpayer should fund privilege is contrary to the principles of equity (i.e. fairness and impartiality).

 

It seems that those who promote grammar schools are simply unwilling to give any meaningful consideration to those excluded by the process of selection that such schools inevitably undertake.

 

You're kidding right. It's called meritocracy. Or should we just all have a turn at being brain surgeons or prime minister?