Tories to bring back Grammar schools

[Staunton]

You're kidding right. It's called meritocracy. Or should we just all have a turn at being brain surgeons or prime minister?

 

A child who is given an advantage cannot claim to have achieved by their own merit. Such a claim is a simple contradiction in terms. This plain fact exposes the sham of meritocratic claims so favoured by the political right.

[unbeliever]

A child who is given an advantage cannot claim to have achieved by their own merit. Such a claim is a simple contradiction in terms. This plain fact exposes the sham of meritocratic claims so favoured by the political right.

 

Rubbish. Grammar schools select on ability, not social status. It is by definition meritocratic. An opportunity which is earned.

They are a force for social mobility and a means to diminish the advantage that the children of the wealth have over their peers.

Edited September 10, 2016 by unbeliever

[Staunton]

Here is a very useful example of how the proponents of privilege hide behind words - using terms such as 'meritocratic', an apparently positive expression that conceals a scathing policy of social division.

[Santo]

Here is a very useful example of how the proponents of privilege hide behind words - using terms such as 'meritocratic', an apparently positive expression that conceals a scathing policy of social division.

 

Are you a Communist?

[Staunton]

Are you a Communist?

 

And here is another well-worn technique, trying to pigeon-hole people rather than engage in meaningful discourse.

[unbeliever]

Here is a very useful example of how the proponents of privilege hide behind words - using terms such as 'meritocratic', an apparently positive expression that conceals a scathing policy of social division.

 

If you say so mate. You haven't got a clue as to my background, but you just keep on making stuff up.

 

---------- Post added 10-09-2016 at 17:39 ----------

 

And here is another well-worn technique, trying to pigeon-hole people rather than engage in meaningful discourse.

 

Not like you just did that to me 2 posts earlier did you. What are you on?

Yes we should all question peoples' motives for saying things rather than accepting them as their honest opinion. Saves countering the actual point they made.

[Sidonica]

You're kidding right. It's called meritocracy. Or should we just all have a turn at being brain surgeons or prime minister?

 

Brain surgeons, no of course not but as for prime minister why the hell not? A grammar school education gave us some very bad ones. I don't need to name them.

[unbeliever]

Brain surgeons, no of course not but as for prime minister why the hell not? A grammar school education gave us some very bad ones. I don't need to name them.

 

So you think just anybody should have command of our nuclear weapons and armed forces then. Glad we cleared that up.

 

The point is that different people have different gifts. The modern world requires us a train as many people as possible, to the highest standard possible, in advanced maths and related subjects. The amount of high value work which needs doing requiring these skills keeps going up.

The modern world also provides very little opportunity for those with minimal skills. Therefore we have to train pretty much everybody, not gifted in advanced mathematics, in the most advanced skills they are capable of acquiring.

It doesn't seem all that far fetched to me that we can identify in most cases at age 11 which of these brand categories a child falls into and tailor their schooling accordingly. We of course will want to keep our options open in case we judge some of them wrongly.

[syne]

Isn't there a film where people are given their future careers at an early age, probably distopian.

 

---------- Post added 10-09-2016 at 18:12 ----------

 

I work in research and teach undergrads and post grads. Mostly I run laboratory projects, but the same problems occur in industry. It is related to spoon feeding. They don't know how to apply what they learn. It's also that they don't learn to the same depth as they used to and are far less independent. It goes back to the 'hard' stuff being stripped out of science syllabuses when AS levels were introduced. They also struggle with planning and carrying out tasks independently. If they are to be any use in a research lab for example. They need to be able to perform tasks they are taught without it taking longer than it would without them being there.

 

In research, but also in business, technologies are moving forward but instead of there being a trickle down effect on teaching, a gap is appearing. University courses are teaching things that should be taught in schools and there is now a gap between the basic knowledge you learn at degree level and the cutting edge science actually happening now, that graduates and post graduates have absolutely no knowledge of.

 

Thanks, it's pretty much as I thought.

 

Could you envision grammar schools rectifying this deficit? Wouldn't it just end up being pushed onto a level deficit?

Edited September 10, 2016 by syne

[Justin Smith]

I said I lost respect for your opinion. You obviously don't respect those that vote Tory, it's clear, you will be happy if their houses lose value. That's why I don't respect your opinion. Your debate is not empirical. It's based on your loathing of all things Tory.

 

Feel free to feel slighted and insulted. I said I don't respect your opinion. That's not an insult it's a statement of fact based on your Tory Equals Bad Citizen Smith politics

 

Where did I say that ? Not all Tories even want Grammar schools back, and, nor did all Tories want to leave the EU, something else I feel very strongly about. But, arguably, a higher percentage of Tories want to have both Grammar schools and leave the EU.