Tories to bring back Grammar schools

[Santo]

Only if your a parent of the lesser kind. It's not uncommon for kids to think life's unfair and sometimes at some point they'll realise this and get on with making their own lot as good as it can be.

In many cases it'll be the parents psychological failings that reinforce this sense of failure, most children are fairly resilient and if their encouraged rather than have disappointment put upon them, will crack on with equanimity.

 

What % will go to Grammars under the new plan? I think I've seen 25% mentioned on the thread?

 

That means the majority of children won't. They will outnumber those that don't 3:1. Rather than feel like a failure I think children are bright enough to realise if they aren't at a grammar they are like most people.

 

Is anyone suggesting exams will change? A child at a grammar will sit an Edexcel maths paper and so will a child at a Comp. No-one is saying As will be impossible to achieve at Comps.

 

Universities look at grades, not schools (yes, even Oxbridge!). I think when you have a few letters after your name no-one cares what school you went to. No-one is saying Grammars will make it impossible for those from Comps to go to University.

[davyboy]

i think you will find that there will be a higher percentage of people that aspire to Grammer schools that will pass the exam:roll:

I take it you didn't do spelling:D:D

 

---------- Post added 14-09-2016 at 15:32 ----------

 

When I took the 11+ in 1950 those that passed went either to a grammar school or a technical school. Those that didn't went to sec moderns.

Those in sec mods could if they showed the aptitude take an exam at 13 and if successful go to grammar or tech schools.

I went to a grammar my brother to a sec mod. He became a manager in BG and earned a blooming sight more than me.

[Justin Smith]

The Parliament Act can be used to ignore the Lords if the Government think they are wrong. After all, they are unelected. Often stated by those that complain about the Lords...unless they block something they don't like either in which case they stop caring that they are unelected.

 

I thought the principle function of The Lords was to delay legislation, in this case possibly till after a General Election. I`d have thought few people could agree with that, after all, as we know, bringing back Grammar schools was not mentioned in the last Tory manifesto.

 

I`ve just thought of a dream scenario (for me). This is all an elaborate scheme to ensure a general election before we actually leave the EU !

[sgtkate]

I really hope you`re right, but if it is a classic distraction tactic, won`t it negatively affect Theresa May`s credibility and weaken her when (hopefully) it fails to get through ?

I must confess to some relief that we have the Lords to bring some sense to all this. Save us from ourselves almost. I`ve been talking to a few people with kids and I was very surprised when they both said they`d be in favour of Grammars. When I asked them if they were certain their kids would pass the 11+, the answer was "oh yes !", then a bit later "I would hope so". The latter says everything.

 

But this is *THE* problem. If the option is 'good' Grammar school or 'crap' secondary modern then clearly I'm going to hope my daughter passes any tests thrown at her and I'd pay for a tutor as well if needed because like pretty much every parent I'd want the best for her and that would trump my own personal ethics. However, if the choice was between equally 'good' academic school and vocational school then it honestly wouldn't mind as long as the decision we made together was done correctly considering her abilities and likes/dislikes.

 

The problem is that we have a view that non-academic achievement is somehow a failure when it's not! And having exams to sort the good from the bad is also poor. Have 2 streams of school and allow parents/teachers/kids to make the call for themselves which is the best route for each kid.

[Justin Smith]

I think it's a really vague assumption. What about parents with one academically gifted child and one not so much? Or a failure as Justin would call them. Do parents cut their son's nose off to spite their daughter's face?

 

I`ll ignore the incorrect gibe about me and put myself in the position of a family who has one academically gifted child and one not so gifted. If it were me I`d be even more against Grammar schools, I`d want them to go to the same school. I suspect most parents would.

[Santo]

I thought the principle function of The Lords was to delay legislation, in this case possibly till after a General Election. I`d have thought few people could agree with that, after all, as we know, bringing back Grammar schools was not mentioned in the last Tory manifesto.

 

I`ve just thought of a dream scenario (for me). This is all an elaborate scheme to ensure a general election before we actually leave the EU !

 

Sure. But Parliament can ignore them. It's only happened a dozen or so times.

 

---------- Post added 14-09-2016 at 16:36 ----------

 

I`ll ignore the incorrect gibe about me and put myself in the position of a family who has one academically gifted child and one not so gifted. If it were me I`d be even more against Grammar schools, I`d want them to go to the same school. I suspect most parents would.

 

Really? Did you read L00b's post?

 

You were surprised half of people asked want grammar schools back. What you suspect might be off the mark.

[Justin Smith]

Originally Posted by pmurtdlanod1

i think you will find that there will be a higher percentage of people that aspire to Grammer schools that will pass the exam

I take it you didn't do spelling:D:D

 

His spelling may be imperfect, but his brain works rather better than a significant number of parents, it would seem.

 

---------- Post added 14-09-2016 at 16:41 ----------

 

Sure. But Parliament can ignore them. It's only happened a dozen or so times.

 

---------- Post added 14-09-2016 at 16:36 ----------

 

 

Really? Did you read L00b's post?

 

You were surprised half of people asked want grammar schools back. What you suspect might be off the mark.

 

Maybe, maybe not.

Wanting your kids to go to the same school, and not emphasise to one that his/her sibling is cleverer than him/her is more of a personal feeling. My statement that I can`t understand it if more than half parents want the return of Grammar schools (when 75% of kids fail the 11+ and go to Secondary Moderns), is objectively logical.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Justin Smith

[pmurtdlanod1]

I take it you didn't do spelling:D:D

 

---------- Post added 14-09-2016 at 15:32 ----------

 

 

damn speil checker:hihi:

[sgtkate]

Originally Posted by pmurtdlanod1

i think you will find that there will be a higher percentage of people that aspire to Grammer schools that will pass the exam

 

 

His spelling may be imperfect, but his brain works rather better than a significant number of parents, it would seem.

 

---------- Post added 14-09-2016 at 16:41 ----------

 

 

Maybe, maybe not.

Wanting your kids to go to the same school, and not emphasise to one that his/her sibling is cleverer than him/her is more of a personal feeling. My statement that I can`t understand it if more than half parents want the return of Grammar schools (when 75% of kids fail the 11+ and go to Secondary Moderns), is objectively logical.

 

So you'd rather both kids went to the same school than the 'higher' achieving one went to a 'better' school? That sounds daft and a bit selfish to me. I'd want the best for any of my children on an individual basis. If that means a horrendous school run then so be it. The one who is less academically gifted may well be more gifted in other things. It's your job as a parent to manage that situation as best you can. Both kids are going to realise pretty soon that one is brighter than the other anyway!

 

However, the rest of your post I agree with, if only 25% of kids get into grammar schools but 50% of parents support them then you'd assume that those 50% think their kids would get into a Grammar and therefore 25% of parents are deluded.

[Santo]

Originally Posted by pmurtdlanod1

i think you will find that there will be a higher percentage of people that aspire to Grammer schools that will pass the exam

 

 

His spelling may be imperfect, but his brain works rather better than a significant number of parents, it would seem.

 

---------- Post added 14-09-2016 at 16:41 ----------

 

 

Maybe, maybe not.

Wanting your kids to go to the same school, and not emphasise to one that his/her sibling is cleverer than him/her is more of a personal feeling. My statement that I can`t understand it if more than half parents want the return of Grammar schools (when 75% of kids fail the 11+ and go to Secondary Moderns), is objectively logical.

 

So not going to a grammar school is quite normal. Three times more don't than do. Nothing to be ashamed of. No sign of failure. Perfectly typical.

 

Are you one of those people that advocates resetting the score to 0-0 at half time if one team is winning 5-0 to spare the feelings of the clearly losing team?

 

Because it's illogical to assume kids remember they were losing 5-0 at half time.....

Edited September 14, 2016 by Santo