Tories to bring back Grammar schools

[Robin-H]

This is hardly a neutral review. I'm well aware of the arguments from that side.

I can't find the age at which streaming started or the degree to which it was exercised in this link.

 

I wasn't presenting an argument for either side. Like I said, I am on the fence as I can see both sides.

 

I thought the link was interesting as it summarised the different educational policies that the UK has had. Sometimes historical perspective is useful for debates such as this.

[unbeliever]

I leave how things are taught to the schools/teachers.

 

You can follow public opinion, but I believe selection at age of 11 does not increase the attainment of children in the UK, so why do it.

 

Any pupil can transfer schools, but its a big change, and not often done.

 

I remember walking to school every morning, about 1.8 miles, do kids still do that, it would be good exercise.

Bring back a transport allowance if selection comes back?

 

Other people believe differently.

[Eater Sundae]

Schools select via the 11 plus. What will happen is that middle-class parents will pay for private tuition for little Tarquin and Esmerelda so that they can spew out the correct answers. There was a news item on the BBC the other day showing that is exactly what happens in Trafford. Middle-class parents will do what they can to buy a grammar school education for their kids just as upper class people buy public school education for their children. It has nothing to do with ability but with programming kids.

 

Unlike now where they just buy expensive houses that guarantee entry to the school of their choice, and avoids the need (or opportunity) for their children to mix with children from "the wrong side of the tracks".

[unbeliever]

I wasn't presenting an argument for either side. Like I said, I am on the fence as I can see both sides.

 

I thought the link was interesting as it summarised the different educational policies that the UK has had. Sometimes historical perspective is useful for debates such as this.

 

An impartial one would be more interesting, but still a valuable contribution to the thread and I did not mean to suggest otherwise.

 

---------- Post added 15-09-2016 at 13:28 ----------

 

People with rather more experience of the issue than you disagree:

 

Grammar school chief dismisses ministers' vision of 'tutor-proof' 11-plus as 'utopian'

 

I said that tutoring would have "limited effect", not no effect.

If you're really worried, how about if the state offers such tutoring?

[El Cid]

I said that tutoring would have "limited effect", not no effect.

If you're really worried, how about if the state offers such tutoring?

 

Will tutoring learn the kids something? Where is the harm in that?

[Santo]

An impartial one would be more interesting, but still a valuable contribution to the thread and I did not mean to suggest otherwise.

 

---------- Post added 15-09-2016 at 13:28 ----------

 

 

I said that tutoring would have "limited effect", not no effect.

If you're really worried, how about if the state offers such tutoring?

 

That's what I wrote in response to Maquis. Is it impossible to imagine teachers at primary schools helping their students prepare for the test? Why is it assumed only those that can afford a tutor will prep the kids?

 

And Eater Sundae replied with an excellent point.

[altus]

I said that tutoring would have "limited effect", not no effect.

If you're really worried, how about if the state offers such tutoring?

Then it would come down to who had the most tutoring.

 

I think streaming within a comprehensive system is the best solution.

[unbeliever]

Then it would come down to who had the most tutoring.

 

I think streaming within a comprehensive system is the best solution.

 

Oh sorry. These threads do tend to start circling after a while.

[Santo]

Then it would come down to who had the most tutoring.

 

I think streaming within a comprehensive system is the best solution.

 

That's what happens now. Look at the point Eater Sundae made.

[unbeliever]

Then it would come down to who had the most tutoring.

 

I think streaming within a comprehensive system is the best solution.

 

No. I said that it would have a "limited effect". It would be an effect but a small one. A small number of kids would end up at the Grammar on account of tutoring who would not otherwise have made it in. A small number. Not a majority, certainly not all.

It's a shade of grey you see. The passing of the 11+ is determined largely by one thing and partly by another thing. I do hop you now understand my previous post.

This could be countered by state funded tutoring for the test.