Tories to bring back Grammar schools

[unbeliever]

Err yes they do, Grammar schools (for those who pass the 11+) must be accompanied by the equivalent of Secondary Moderns (for those who fail). Unless you had Grammar schools who took everyone, but then they wouldn`t be Grammar schools would they ? They`d be, ah yes, Comprehensives. That`s the whole point.......

 

That's not the way it works with the remaining grammar schools. Those who don't pass the 11+ end up at the comprehensives and can still pursue an academic path. They're only denied access to the grammar itself and it's specialisation in the academic rather than the vocational.

[Justin Smith]

Have you not read the post where I quoted a YouGov poll that said that 53% of people wanted grammar schools to return, or are you just assuming that that can't be correct because it isn't what you personally believe?

 

What was the question that was put to them ? You have to remember that a lot of people are, how can we put it, a bit thick. They don't actually think about things. Want they`re actually being asked is would you support the reintroduction of Secondary Moderns for most children ? ASsk that and you`d get a different answer, I`m 100% sure of it.

[Robin-H]

What was the question that was put to them ? You have to remember that a lot of people are, how can we put it, a bit thick. They don't actually think about things. Want they`re actually being asked is would you support the reintroduction of Secondary Moderns for most children ? ASsk that and you`d get a different answer, I`m 100% sure of it.

 

Sigh. Perhaps you should read what I quoted. I will paste it again..

 

Back in February YouGov asked a question to two different samples. Half were asked if they’d like to bring back grammar schools across the whole of Great Britain – 53% said yes, 20% said no. The other half were asked if they’d like to bring back the system of an exam at 11, with 25% of children who passed going to grammar schools and the other 75% going to secondary moderns. Now 46% of people supported it, 34% of people were opposed.

[Justin Smith]

That's not the way it works with the remaining grammar schools. Those who don't pass the 11+ end up at the comprehensives and can still pursue an academic path. They're only denied access to the grammar itself and it's specialisation in the academic rather than the vocational.

 

That`s meaningless codswallop which I`d not expect from you UB, most of what you say, even if I disagree with you, is well argued. You can`t have Comprehensives and Grammar schools, it`s a contradiction in terms.

[Robin-H]

That`s meaningless codswallop which I`d not expect from you UB, most of what you say, even if I disagree with you, is well argued. You can`t have Comprehensives and Grammar schools, it`s a contradiction in terms.

 

Why is it? It is what exists now.

[Annie Bynnol]

The 11+ examination did not enable pupils with a certain ability to enter Grammar School.

 

The Grammar Schools would usually have a certain number places available by examination, this would be the size of the year group minus:

 

boarders

fee payers

scholarships

children of civil servants and military officers working abroad etc.

 

Also:

50% of those wishing to attend could be barred because of their sex.

20% of those wishing to attend could be barred because of their religion.

Also barred would be those children whose parents were not of good character.

 

 

However the biggest factor that would determine your chance of a place would be the huge discrepancy in the number of locally available places.

 

City dwellers had a very much smaller chance of a Grammar School place because there were relatively fewer schools in the new industrial cities. This was even more extreme when applied to girls.

 

Perhaps the driving force behind the notion of Comprehensive education was to overcome unfairness.

[Justin Smith]

Sigh. Perhaps you should read what I quoted. I will paste it again..

 

Back in February YouGov asked a question to two different samples. Half were asked if they’d like to bring back grammar schools across the whole of Great Britain – 53% said yes, 20% said no. The other half were asked if they’d like to bring back the system of an exam at 11, with 25% of children who passed going to grammar schools and the other 75% going to secondary moderns. Now 46% of people supported it, 34% of people were opposed.

 

Right, so at least we've agreed on one thing, the statistic you should be quoting is not 53%, it`s 46%. I have to say I`m surprised that even 46% are in favour of that qustion. It show that a high proportion of parents have an inaccurate estimation of their kids abilities. But if you think about it that`s not entirely surprising. Plus it also implies there are a lot of unrealistic (or plain thick.......) people out there.

[Robin-H]

Right, so at least we've agreed on one thing, the statistic you should be quoting is not 53%, it`s 46%. I have to say I`m surprised that even 46% are in favour of that qustion. It show that a high proportion of parents have an inaccurate estimation of their kids abilities. But if you think about it that`s not entirely surprising. Plus it also implies there are a lot of unrealistic (or plain thick.......) people out there.

 

I quoted both statistics. I assumed that people would be able to read the quote and understand for themselves what that implied. Perhaps I was wrong.

[Justin Smith]

Why is it? It is what exists now.

 

No it isn`t. It`s not possible to have Comprehensives and Grammar schools at the same time, it`s a total contradiction in terms.

[Robin-H]

No it isn`t. It`s not possible to have Comprehensives and Grammar schools at the same time, it`s a total contradiction in terms.

 

But we have them at the same time now...