Tories to bring back Grammar schools

[I1L2T3]

No, that's Einstein's definition.

 

You can use it for anything.

[Santo]

You can use it for anything.

 

We have comp schools now. We expect them to improve instead of shaking up the system but why, that's the definition of insanity!

 

Yeah, guess you are right!

[I1L2T3]

His party did, as voted by the people in the GE. We don't vote for Prime Ministers unless you are able to do so by being in their political party, being an MP or whatever. Gordon Brown's promotion might have been laughably easy but I'm not sure why you think having a different PM mid term means that individual doesn't have the authority to run the country or to continue working on those policies that the party was elected on the basis of.

 

Oh wait.. were you one of those people a few months ago demanding a GE because we had a new PM? .

 

Look we both know that between 2007-10 it's highly likely you were arguing Brown had no mandate.

 

Please stop pretending.

[Bob Arctor]

Another one who thinks that a party cannot put forward policies that were not in the manifesto.

 

Maybe we need a referendum for any new policy put forward that wasn't previously voted on? Would that make it more democratic for you?

 

That would make it more democratic for me. If representative democracy is to be anywhere near democratic then people should know what they are voting for and expect to get that. So we should also have the right to recall those representatives should they fail to deliver that. I think you are accepting too little democracy.

 

---------- Post added 08-09-2016 at 20:33 ----------

 

We have comp schools now. We expect them to improve instead of shaking up the system but why, that's the definition of insanity!

 

Yeah, guess you are right!

 

Comprehensives in London are improving massively without shaking up the system (AKA turning them into Grammar schools). Can you explain how that is possible?

[BoroB]

So anyone who was beaten at school would not have the moral right to oppose corporal punishment as an adult?

 

Stick to the topic Bob.

 

I thought we were talking about Grammar schools and education here and people having the same choice that Jeremy's parents had and that Jeremy had for his son?

 

A choice that he wants to deny people?

[I1L2T3]

We have comp schools now. We expect them to improve instead of shaking up the system but why, that's the definition of insanity!

 

Yeah, guess you are right!

 

As always nothing is perfect and it's about choosing the least broken system.

 

Both main parties spent a couple of decades dismantling the old system, for solid reasons.

 

It can't magically be better this time, so it's insanity to try.

[the_bloke]

Look we both know that between 2007-10 it's highly likely you were arguing Brown had no mandate.

 

Please stop pretending.

 

Why, when I voted Labour in 2005? I had no problem with him being made PM at the time, I judged him on his performance which I found wanting but I didn't use the manner he became PM as a stick to beat him with.

 

Did you moan about him having a lack of mandate?

[Bob Arctor]

Stick to the topic Bob.

 

I thought we were talking about Grammar schools and education here and people having the same choice that Jeremy's parents had and that Jeremy had for his son?

 

A choice that he wants to deny people?

 

The principle you are advocating is that it's morally wrong as an adult to deny other adults the right to make the choices that adults made when you were a child. Or is it not a general principle and just a one-off principle regarding grammar schools only, and if so why?

[BoroB]

Very harsh to apply that to children at age 11.

 

Children apply selection daily - who to play with, what sweet to eat, what to watch on TV, what past time to indulge in, which clubs to join at school etc.

 

At 13 they'll be selecting which subjects to continue studying.

 

They'll never stop making selections, good and bad, through the rest of their lives.

[I1L2T3]

Why, when I voted Labour in 2005? I had no problem with him being made PM at the time, I judged him on his performance which I found wanting but I didn't use the manner he became PM as a stick to beat him with.

 

Did you moan about him having a lack of mandate?

 

I was ultimately very disappointed he didn't call an election in 2007. Causing him to chicken out was arguably Osborne's strongest political moment. Osborne and Cameron had him by the nuts after that. I felt very uneasy with him as PM much like I do with May.

 

I don't think it matters much anyway. Her executive power is shot through already.

 

---------- Post added 08-09-2016 at 20:49 ----------

 

Children apply selection daily - who to play with, what sweet to eat, what to watch on TV, what past time to indulge in, which clubs to join at school etc.

 

At 13 they'll be selecting which subjects to continue studying.

 

They'll never stop making selections, good and bad, through the rest of their lives.

 

In the 11+ they don't make the selection themselves.

 

Their effort at that point is the sum of their experiences, and for many kids it's a poor indicator of future potential, and especially so for the ones who have had a rough start.