unbeliever Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 It's not problem solved if 3% of GDP gets spent in a below optimum way. In fact the problem that needs to be solved is working out how we get even better value like the Spanish do. We can get better services by spending less not more. We all know the problems with the NHS and we all could point to better ways to reduce the spend on it. I'm very irritated by the way supporters of privatisation so vigorously attack waste but are so relaxed about tens of billions being creamed off by private companies once services are privatised. Railways or healthcare it doesn't matter it seems. What percentage do you imagine is "creamed off"? Those of us who support privatisation are of the view that that which is lost to profit is more than made up for by that which is gained in efficiency and quality. If I thought there was another way to achieve the gains without the loss to "profit", I'd probably support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 (edited) What percentage do you imagine is "creamed off"? Those of us who support privatisation are of the view that that which is lost to profit is more than made up for by that which is gained in efficiency and quality. If I thought there was another way to achieve the gains without the loss to "profit", I'd probably support it. I'm not imagining that money gets creamed off. We all know it does and the % is going to vary by sector. Most privatisations have not been successful. I'm not going to deny that some things have improved but others have not, or at least the promise has not been realised. Railways are the standout failure which is why there is a massive public majority in favour of renationalisation. Edited September 10, 2016 by I1L2T3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 I'm not imagining that money gets creamed off. We all know it does and the % is going to vary by sector. Most privatisations have not been successful. I'm not going to deny that some things have improved but others not, or at least the promise has not been realised. Railways are the standout failure which is why there is a massive public majority in favour of renationalisation. I'm content to be in the minority on this matter. Fortunately as we have parliamentary democracy rather than direct democracy and the government always seems to agree with me, I seem to have the upper hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 I'm content to be in the minority on this matter. Fortunately as we have parliamentary democracy rather than direct democracy and the government always seems to agree with me, I seem to have the upper hand. You're taking the mick now. Direct democracy suited you a few weeks ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 You're taking the mick now. Direct democracy suited you a few weeks ago The matter of who owns the railways is hardly constitutional. I've been quite consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANGELFIRE1 Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 The East Coast line was run by the government from 2009 to 2015 due to problems with the franchisees. It worked fine. It makes sense for all the big utilities to be run by the government, such as the NHS, roads, railways, gas, electricity and water. And isn't that the truth of the situation, spot on. Angel1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 And isn't that the truth of the situation, spot on. Angel1. No. It isn't. As has now been explained on this thread twice. Sorry is reality proving inconvenient for the nationalise case? Maybe if you ignore it, it will go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 No. It isn't. As has now been explained on this thread twice. Sorry is reality proving inconvenient for the nationalise case? Maybe if you ignore it, it will go away. You've explained nothing. You've presented a hardcord ideolgical stance as fact which does not match reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 You've explained nothing. You've presented a hardcord ideolgical stance as fact which does not match reality. So what investments in the rolling stock and facilities were made by the state operator on the east coast line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 So what investments in the rolling stock and facilities were made by the state operator on the east coast line? You tell me. You seem to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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